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Post by redsfanman on Nov 12, 2014 10:07:33 GMT -5
I'm not excited by Deven Marrero. He's a 24 year old first round draft pick, but he's still a glove-first shortstop with no homerun power. He had a great half season in AA this year with a .371 OBP, but that was a clear outlier from everywhere he's been.
The Reds already have a glove-first shortstop with more homerun power. Cozart put up a .360 OBP in AA in 2009 at age 23, albeit with 10 homeruns. In 2011 in AAA Cozart put up a .357 OBP. In 2010 Cozart stole 30 bases and hit 17 homeruns.
Both are defensive specialists who've put up good OBPs for brief periods in the minors. Neither are great hitters. Is Marrero a better player? An upgrade? To me it sure looks like Deven Marrero is a different name on the jersey more than an upgrade. Cozart has more homerun power and is one of the best defensive shortstops around. These days more and more teams settle for slick fielding shortstops who don't hit well, of which Cozart and Marrero are both good examples of the same type of player. Also, is Marrero even ready to be called up?
If the Reds can pull off Latos for Cespedes and Marrero, fine with me. I think that'll satisfy all the calls for a new LF and new SS, while not actually addressing the concerns with offensive production from a #8 hitting shortstop. Often times a new name matters more than a better player. Or having a 'top prospect' in the farm system, at Louisville, will make people stop caring about Cozart's production temporarily.
Latos is expected to be ready for spring training. I suspect that upon reviewing his medical records other teams will determine that Latos' health is a safe bet, as we've heard nothing to the contrary.
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Post by schellis on Nov 12, 2014 11:17:17 GMT -5
I think at worst it would provide the Reds with a option to try if Cozart is hitting .220. In the previous recent seasons (since Didi was dealt) the Reds really haven't had any other option.
Add to the fact even if Morrero's ceiling is something close to Cozart that isn't end of the world while he's cheap.
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Post by kinsm on Nov 12, 2014 19:53:21 GMT -5
I'm not a fan of Cesepedes, but him and Marrero I think would be enough for Latos. However I would first check to see what would take to sign Cueto and if that fails I'd look to Latos. Let me check for you...150M$
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Post by psuhistory on Nov 24, 2014 13:01:23 GMT -5
More chewing on a Cespedes trade, but nothing much new. Personally, I don't like the Leake for Craig idea...
BAR: Yoenis Cespedes Fits Reds, But Do Reds Fit Sox? by C. Trent Rosecrans, Enquirer, November 24, 2014
Red Sox left fielder Yoenis Cespedes was on the trading block before Boston's big weekend spending spree, and now it seems they've pushed him out the door, just waiting for a place to put him.
Is Cincinnati the place?
Well, it seems like a logic fit for the Reds — a power-hitting left fielder who could take advantage of Great American Ball Park.
With the Red Sox signing both Pablo Sandoval and Hanley Ramirez, that means Sandoval will likely be at third and Ramirez in left — leaving Cespedes the odd man out.
But the Red Sox want pitching — and they gave up Jon Lester (although just a half-season) to get Cespedes, so it's not like they're looking for mid-line starting pitching. They're likely looking for elite pitching.
The Reds have an elite pitcher in Johnny Cueto — but it seems unlikely they'll part with him, and they're also hopefully he'll re-sign with the Reds.
In a world where Mat Latos hasn't ended the last two seasons hurt and started last season on the DL, it could be enough to get it done. Of course, that's a world where the Reds probably beat the Giants one out of three games at home in 2012 — we don't live in either of those worlds.
Maybe the Red Sox have hurt their leverage enough with the free-agent signings that they'd take that risk — it doesn't seem likely, but maybe it's possible.
If Cueto were to be dealt, Latos has the potential to step up and be the No. 1 — but if no other team is willing to take that bet, should the Reds? They have more info on Latos, but they're also taking the risk.
Mike Leake and Alfredo Simon are good pitchers, both had solid 2014 seasons and will make some money as free agents after 2015 — neither seems to be the type that gets you an All-Star left fielder. And remember, the Red Sox are looking for front-line starting, even if they re-sign Lester, they'll still be looking for a No. 2.
Sending one of the non-Cueto starters to Boston and a prospect to try to get Cespedes doesn't make sense either, because then you're down two spots — one for 2014 and one for beyond. Even when you "go for it," you know there's a future behind that year you're going for it in.
And say there's a chance the Reds do deal Cueto, to do that, they wouldn't be doing it for a one-year rental. There's a better chance to re-sign Cueto than to re-sign Cespedes, just because Cueto has said he like it here, he's comfortable here and would prefer to stay. That can always be said — and it seems unlikely they'd be able to afford them, but I feel much better about their chances of getting a long-term deal with Cueto right now than I did of them getting a deal done with Bailey at this time last year.
So, anyway, back to dealing Cueto, that wouldn't be for the likes of Cespedes, but, and I don't see this happening, if the Red Sox wanted Cueto, the asking price would likely be more like Xander Bogaerts — and that's an intriguing prospect, one that makes more sense for the Reds than Cueto-Cespedes.
Or, maybe the Red Sox keep Cespedes and deal Allen Craig — he is a former Cardinal, and that's seemed to be a recent trend — at a much lower asking price. Could Leake get you Craig? Maybe.
This much I'm pretty sure about at this point, the Reds starting left fielder on April 6 against the Pirates is probably not on the roster right now.
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Post by walstib on Nov 24, 2014 19:10:35 GMT -5
I'm not excited by Deven Marrero. He's a 24 year old first round draft pick, but he's still a glove-first shortstop with no homerun power. He had a great half season in AA this year with a .371 OBP, but that was a clear outlier from everywhere he's been.... Why the concern that a SS doesn't have an ability to hit HR's? Psssst, you want a glove-first player, especially one that is gold-glove capable, at a premium defensive position.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 25, 2014 5:30:51 GMT -5
Now this comment was from a Bosux fan commenting on an article but I found it too hilarious not to share. A guy said that there was no way the Sox would give Cespedes and Boegarts for Cueto(which he may be right on that part), he continued to say that Cespedes alone for Cueto would be an overpay and that the Reds would have to kick in a prospect.
Laughable
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Post by tnredsfan on Nov 25, 2014 11:52:11 GMT -5
Bogaerts is the #2 prospect in all of baseball. There's no way the BoSox are trading Cespedes and Bogaerts for Cueto. If they were willing, though, I'd make that deal in a heartbeat.
The Red Sox see an opportunity - the AL East looks weaker for 2015 than it has in ages - and they're seizing it. But they're not going to win the division without adding a top of the rotation arm. And I still think that trading Cueto now (assuming the return is big) is the best way to give us a puncher's chance at competing this year, as well as keeping the window open for a few more years.
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Post by Lark11 on Nov 25, 2014 12:12:00 GMT -5
I'm not excited by Deven Marrero. He's a 24 year old first round draft pick, but he's still a glove-first shortstop with no homerun power. He had a great half season in AA this year with a .371 OBP, but that was a clear outlier from everywhere he's been.... Why the concern that a SS doesn't have an ability to hit HR's? Psssst, you want a glove-first player, especially one that is gold-glove capable, at a premium defensive position. Mostly because that's what the structure of our roster dictates. Realistically, our poor offensive can only be improved with upgrades at shortstop and/or leftfield. To upgrade elsewhere will require a massive reworking of our roster, which, while possible, is more difficult to accomplish. If we need offensive improvement, it basically needs to come at short or left. We tried the glove-first shortstop last year, we didn't have enough offense around him to make it work.
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Post by schellis on Nov 25, 2014 14:57:57 GMT -5
Latos would be all I'd be willing to part with for Cespedes. I could care less that he was a all star, I also wouldn't give up more then Simon for Craig if even that. Craig was horrible last year.
Bogaerts though I would be really excited to get, and if Cueto had no interest in a extension with the Reds then I would deal him in a heartbeat for Bogaerts alone.
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Post by dukecrunchybagel on Nov 25, 2014 17:03:26 GMT -5
Looks like Bogearts won't be available. Farrell's plan is for Hanley to play LF, Cespedes will shift over to RF (most likely).
How about Middlebrooks?
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Post by schellis on Nov 25, 2014 17:12:47 GMT -5
Looks like Bogearts won't be available. Farrell's plan is for Hanley to play LF, Cespedes will shift over to RF (most likely). How about Middlebrooks? Middlebrooks is a mediocre hitter who had a hot streak when he came up.
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Post by walstib on Nov 25, 2014 19:05:38 GMT -5
Why the concern that a SS doesn't have an ability to hit HR's? Psssst, you want a glove-first player, especially one that is gold-glove capable, at a premium defensive position. Mostly because that's what the structure of our roster dictates. Realistically, our poor offensive can only be improved with upgrades at shortstop and/or leftfield. To upgrade elsewhere will require a massive reworking of our roster, which, while possible, is more difficult to accomplish. If we need offensive improvement, it basically needs to come at short or left. We tried the glove-first shortstop last year, we didn't have enough offense around him to make it work. Defense wins championships. Shortstop is a defense first position. So according to this logic because Votto was hurt, Bruce under-performed, Phillips is regressing and there was never a capable left-fielder the solution to the offensive problems is to hell with defense at SS-- we must get a bat-first SS, one that hits home runs? What about anticipating Votto and Bruce coming back, finding a true LF bat and maybe even replacing Phillips?
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Post by kinsm on Nov 25, 2014 19:41:58 GMT -5
Looks like Bogearts won't be available. Farrell's plan is for Hanley to play LF, Cespedes will shift over to RF (most likely). How about Middlebrooks? Cespedes is gone...the Red Sox still have to make room for Victorino, Betts and Craig.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 25, 2014 20:08:41 GMT -5
Looks like Bogearts won't be available. Farrell's plan is for Hanley to play LF, Cespedes will shift over to RF (most likely). How about Middlebrooks? Cespedes is gone...the Red Sox still have to make room for Victorino, Betts and Craig. As a grown man I have great difficulty admitting fear. That said, as a Reds fan I greatly fear that Walt will not resist the urge to acquire the former Cardinal Allen Craig.
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Post by kinsm on Nov 25, 2014 20:34:06 GMT -5
Cespedes is gone...the Red Sox still have to make room for Victorino, Betts and Craig. As a grown man I have great difficulty admitting fear. That said, as a Reds fan I greatly fear that Walt will not resist the urge to acquire the former Cardinal Allen Craig. Craig is going to be a tough sell for BOS, he's owed a lot of money. I think you're going to see Cespedes traded for a pitcher (probably someone like I. Kennedy or M. Latos - 1 year left), then I think you're going to see them trade Napoli or Victorino for who knows what (MIA/SEA/SD seem like landing spots), and then they'll sign a #1 SP'er like Lester or make a huge trade with PHI (Hamels + Cash (+ perhaps Ruiz) for a butt load of prospects not named Betts or Bogaerts). Hamels would bring back some package of: Owens, Barnes, Webster, Johnson, Workman, Ranaudo, Shaw, Rijo, Coyle, Marrero, Devers, Cecchini, Margot, Brentz. Obviously the more money PHI included the better haul they'd get from that group. BOSTON DEPTH CHART will probably end up like this:DH Ortiz 1B Napoli (if not traded) or Craig 2B Pedroia SS Bogaerts 3B Sandoval LF Ramirez CF Castillo RF Betts or Victorino (if not traded) C Vazquez (or maybe Ruiz in a Hamels trade) Bench: C Butler, UT Holt, 1B/OF Craig (if not traded), Nava (f not traded) -Bradley and Middlebrooks go to AAA if not traded -Betts could play 2015 like Zobrist - everywhere.
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