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Post by vtreds22 on Nov 25, 2014 21:20:50 GMT -5
Jon Heyman @jonheymancbs 6m6 minutes ago
agree with all who said cespedes is trade bait now. havent heard this, but cespedes for latos, leake or kennedy makes sense ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Interesting that Heyman speculates two Reds pitchers (along with a Padre) for Cespedes. Latos for Cespedes is a deal that does make sense on paper, especially if the Reds have full intentions on re-signing Cueto. In a proposed Latos/Cespedes swap however, who enters the rotation? Cueto, Bailey, Leake, and Simon would be locked in, but who's the 5th starter? Stephenson isn't ready, nor is Lorenzen. Iglesias, perhaps? I'm not sold on the idea of a rookie stepping in and being an effective starter.
Seems like we'd be relying on Simon to repeat both his 2014 success and stay healthy (unlikely), some combination of Cingrani/Iglesias as the 5th starter, and Homer Bailey's elbow being fine. Lot of question marks in that rotation...
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Post by tnredsfan on Nov 26, 2014 4:50:56 GMT -5
Jon Heyman @jonheymancbs 6m6 minutes ago agree with all who said cespedes is trade bait now. havent heard this, but cespedes for latos, leake or kennedy makes sense --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Interesting that Heyman speculates two Reds pitchers (along with a Padre) for Cespedes. Latos for Cespedes is a deal that does make sense on paper, especially if the Reds have full intentions on re-signing Cueto. In a proposed Latos/Cespedes swap however, who enters the rotation? Cueto, Bailey, Leake, and Simon would be locked in, but who's the 5th starter? Stephenson isn't ready, nor is Lorenzen. Iglesias, perhaps? I'm not sold on the idea of a rookie stepping in and being an effective starter. Seems like we'd be relying on Simon to repeat both his 2014 success and stay healthy (unlikely), some combination of Cingrani/Iglesias as the 5th starter, and Homer Bailey's elbow being fine. Lot of question marks in that rotation... Man. I mean, Cespedes would be a good fit, but he's a one-year rental for $9 million, and that's selling pretty low on Latos (I still happen to believe that a good #2 starter, when healthy, is still worth more than a slightly-above-league-average-for-his-position bat in left field, but times are a'changin.) I'd do it if they'd throw in Middlebrooks, who at least has some pop and might benefit from the scenery change as well as GABP's dimensions. Also, he provides some insurance in the event that Cozart's offense doesn't improve or, god help us, gets worse. But I don't see the BoSox doing that. How about Cespedes for Leake?
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Post by kinsm on Nov 26, 2014 7:55:45 GMT -5
Jon Heyman @jonheymancbs 6m6 minutes ago agree with all who said cespedes is trade bait now. havent heard this, but cespedes for latos, leake or kennedy makes sense --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Interesting that Heyman speculates two Reds pitchers (along with a Padre) for Cespedes. Latos for Cespedes is a deal that does make sense on paper, especially if the Reds have full intentions on re-signing Cueto. In a proposed Latos/Cespedes swap however, who enters the rotation? Cueto, Bailey, Leake, and Simon would be locked in, but who's the 5th starter? Stephenson isn't ready, nor is Lorenzen. Iglesias, perhaps? I'm not sold on the idea of a rookie stepping in and being an effective starter. Seems like we'd be relying on Simon to repeat both his 2014 success and stay healthy (unlikely), some combination of Cingrani/Iglesias as the 5th starter, and Homer Bailey's elbow being fine. Lot of question marks in that rotation... Man. I mean, Cespedes would be a good fit, but he's a one-year rental for $9 million, and that's selling pretty low on Latos (I still happen to believe that a good #2 starter, when healthy, is still worth more than a slightly-above-league-average-for-his-position bat in left field, but times are a'changin.) I'd do it if they'd throw in Middlebrooks, who at least has some pop and might benefit from the scenery change as well as GABP's dimensions. Also, he provides some insurance in the event that Cozart's offense doesn't improve or, god help us, gets worse. But I don't see the BoSox doing that. How about Cespedes for Leake? Where in the world would you play Middlebrooks?
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Post by redsfanman on Nov 26, 2014 13:56:20 GMT -5
If a starter DOES get traded Cingrani and Iglesias would be the clear favorites for an open rotation spot to start the season. Neither would necessarily have to be counted on for a 30+ start, 200+ inning season due to depth. David Holmberg may be extremely unpopular and controversial (throwing hard is key to success!), but had a promising final few starts and seems deserving of another shot as a 5th starter. Later in the season I could realistically see any of Stephenson, Lorenzen, Lively, and/or Moscot becoming rotation candidates, if things go well for them, and if the Reds remain in contention (although dropping out of contention might lower the job requirements...).
I suspect Corcino and Contreras will spend the season in the Reds' bullpen, but if for some reason they kept starting they may also be candidates to enter the rotation if Simon, Cingrani, or Iglesias get hurt, underperform, or reach inning limits.
I have just as much concern about freak-injury-prone Johnny Cueto's ability to stay healthy after a healthy 2014 as I do Bailey and Latos after their treated injuries. Any pitcher's health is a gamble - clearly even Bronson Arroyo's - and the Reds just need to hope they get luckier in 2015 than 2014.
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Post by redsfanman on Nov 26, 2014 14:12:12 GMT -5
I'm not excited by Deven Marrero. He's a 24 year old first round draft pick, but he's still a glove-first shortstop with no homerun power. He had a great half season in AA this year with a .371 OBP, but that was a clear outlier from everywhere he's been.... Why the concern that a SS doesn't have an ability to hit HR's? Psssst, you want a glove-first player, especially one that is gold-glove capable, at a premium defensive position. The Reds already have a slick fielding glove-first shortstop by the name of Zach Cozart. I suspect Deven Marrero would require a fairly valuable trade chip to acquire, and the most significance difference will be shedding Cozart's ~$3m -salary arbitration-determined contract, rather than a significant improvement in production at the position. In the end I think replacing Cozart with Marrero is more a matter of changing the name on a jersey than upgrading from a bad player to a good one. I'm not particularly concerned about a shortstop's homerun power, but a lack of power is a frequent (albeit perhaps silly) grievance expressed against Cozart. OBP is the offensive statistic that I'd place the most emphasis on, but high OBP shortstops are very hard to find today. If the Reds replace Zack Cozart I want to be able to say "wow, this replacement is MUCH better". I think there are a bunch of young shortstops who could make me think that. Francisco Lindor, Addison Russell, Corey Seager, Xander Bogaerts, and Jurrickson Profar to name a handful. None of them seem particularly likely to be acquired by the Reds, leaving us with names similar to Cozart, ranging from Stephen Drew to Deven Marrero.
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Post by Lark11 on Nov 26, 2014 18:58:48 GMT -5
Why the concern that a SS doesn't have an ability to hit HR's? Psssst, you want a glove-first player, especially one that is gold-glove capable, at a premium defensive position. The Reds already have a slick fielding glove-first shortstop by the name of Zach Cozart. I suspect Deven Marrero would require a fairly valuable trade chip to acquire, and the most significance difference will be shedding Cozart's ~$3m -salary arbitration-determined contract, rather than a significant improvement in production at the position. In the end I think replacing Cozart with Marrero is more a matter of changing the name on a jersey than upgrading from a bad player to a good one. I'm not particularly concerned about a shortstop's homerun power, but a lack of power is a frequent (albeit perhaps silly) grievance expressed against Cozart. OBP is the offensive statistic that I'd place the most emphasis on, but high OBP shortstops are very hard to find today. If the Reds replace Zack Cozart I want to be able to say "wow, this replacement is MUCH better". I think there are a bunch of young shortstops who could make me think that. Francisco Lindor, Addison Russell, Corey Seager, Xander Bogaerts, and Jurrickson Profar to name a handful. None of them seem particularly likely to be acquired by the Reds, leaving us with names similar to Cozart, ranging from Stephen Drew to Deven Marrero. I don't care about the specific shape of our shortstop's offensive production, I just care that there actually IS some.
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Post by tnredsfan on Nov 27, 2014 3:06:09 GMT -5
Man. I mean, Cespedes would be a good fit, but he's a one-year rental for $9 million, and that's selling pretty low on Latos (I still happen to believe that a good #2 starter, when healthy, is still worth more than a slightly-above-league-average-for-his-position bat in left field, but times are a'changin.) I'd do it if they'd throw in Middlebrooks, who at least has some pop and might benefit from the scenery change as well as GABP's dimensions. Also, he provides some insurance in the event that Cozart's offense doesn't improve or, god help us, gets worse. But I don't see the BoSox doing that. How about Cespedes for Leake? Where in the world would you play Middlebrooks? My mistake - I thought, for some reason, he had split time at 3B and SS, in which case he could spell Cozart and Frazier and give us some righthanded power off the bench. So scratch that idea. I'm still backing Cespedes for Leake.
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Post by kinsm on Nov 27, 2014 3:22:29 GMT -5
Jocketty could just extend one of these starters and brush aside some of the fear that all 4 are gone next winter. Even with an extension he could trade them in July if they choose to go full barnburner mode.
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Post by kramer1 on Nov 27, 2014 10:13:13 GMT -5
The Reds already have a slick fielding glove-first shortstop by the name of Zach Cozart. I suspect Deven Marrero would require a fairly valuable trade chip to acquire, and the most significance difference will be shedding Cozart's ~$3m -salary arbitration-determined contract, rather than a significant improvement in production at the position. In the end I think replacing Cozart with Marrero is more a matter of changing the name on a jersey than upgrading from a bad player to a good one. I'm not particularly concerned about a shortstop's homerun power, but a lack of power is a frequent (albeit perhaps silly) grievance expressed against Cozart. OBP is the offensive statistic that I'd place the most emphasis on, but high OBP shortstops are very hard to find today. If the Reds replace Zack Cozart I want to be able to say "wow, this replacement is MUCH better". I think there are a bunch of young shortstops who could make me think that. Francisco Lindor, Addison Russell, Corey Seager, Xander Bogaerts, and Jurrickson Profar to name a handful. None of them seem particularly likely to be acquired by the Reds, leaving us with names similar to Cozart, ranging from Stephen Drew to Deven Marrero. I don't care about the specific shape of our shortstop's offensive production, I just care that there actually IS some. What about the shape of his ass?
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Post by psuhistory on Nov 27, 2014 10:35:18 GMT -5
I don't care about the specific shape of our shortstop's offensive production, I just care that there actually IS some. What about the shape of his ass? Cozart is a handsome man and would probably have a high sex trade value...
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Post by kinsm on Dec 3, 2014 0:32:34 GMT -5
Reds GM Walt Jocketty says that his club has not discussed Yoenis Cespedes with the Red Sox, John Fay of the Cincinnati Enquirer reports
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Post by kramer1 on Dec 3, 2014 7:59:46 GMT -5
Reds GM Walt Jocketty says that his club has not discussed Yoenis Cespedes with the Red Sox, John Fay of the Cincinnati Enquirer reports "We like what we have"
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Post by psuhistory on Dec 3, 2014 9:15:08 GMT -5
Reds GM Walt Jocketty says that his club has not discussed Yoenis Cespedes with the Red Sox, John Fay of the Cincinnati Enquirer reports Just reading the leaves, he doesn't say that the Reds aren't interested. Possible that the Reds figure the Bosox first need to decide on their pitching strategy before any discussions make sense...
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Post by redsfanman on Dec 3, 2014 12:11:14 GMT -5
The Red Soxs (and other teams) probably need to determine what happens to free agents John Lester, Max Scherzer, James Shields, and perhaps others before determining if a trade for Cueto, Latos, or Leake is in their best interests. They probably figure they have 4+ months until opening day to make a trade, as do the Reds.
Jocketty might also want to continue pursuing free agent OFs Mike Morse, Nori Aoki, and others at the winter meetings, which could alter what the Reds want in a trade (shifting the priority from LF to SS or bullpen help). Once those guys, plus Colby Ramus, Alex Rios, and other free agents are off the table it'll become clearer if/that the Reds' only hope to acquire a LF is through a trade, making Cespedes more appealing.
Once other guys are off the table the Reds can discuss Cespedes.
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