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Post by Dustrated on Oct 22, 2014 11:02:35 GMT -5
I've been on the fence about this, basically waiting for the Reds to indicate clearly whether poverty will be the theme of their offseason. If that's the case, I would start the dealing for magic beans because I don't think they're going to fix their problems for 2015 with that attitude. Still, this postseason has confirmed again that the Reds have at least one of the major strengths for a run, and I'd like to see them try once more with this group... The decision would be so much easier if we could rely on Tony Cingrani. If he was healthy, then, oddly enough, it'd be easier to conceive of trading away starting pitching under either a win-now plan or a play for the future plan. His absence really robs us of needed depth. His balky shoulder makes it impossible to rely on his presence in our rotation for the purposes of our offseason planning. If we want to get the most out of Tony Cingrani next year, he should be a long relief guy with some spot starts. Come August, September allow him to start more or become a full time starter if we become injury riddled. 70-80 innings up to about mid-August. Finish around 120-130 innings. Similar to how Petit was used in San Fran. I think thats how we could get full value out of Cingrani.
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Post by redsfanman on Oct 22, 2014 11:54:01 GMT -5
The decision would be so much easier if we could rely on Tony Cingrani. If he was healthy, then, oddly enough, it'd be easier to conceive of trading away starting pitching under either a win-now plan or a play for the future plan. His absence really robs us of needed depth. His balky shoulder makes it impossible to rely on his presence in our rotation for the purposes of our offseason planning. If we want to get the most out of Tony Cingrani next year, he should be a long relief guy with some spot starts. Come August, September allow him to start more or become a full time starter if we become injury riddled. 70-80 innings up to about mid-August. Finish around 120-130 innings. Similar to how Petit was used in San Fran. I think thats how we could get full value out of Cingrani. If Cingrani isn't a starter at the beginning of the season I doubt he'll become one later in the season. Every week he spends pitching out of the bullpen will make a AA or AAA prospect closer to being ready to fill a rotation spot. Iglesias, Lorenzen, Moscot, Holmberg, Stephenson, and Lively will all have eyes on the job. Cingrani is at risk of being permanently moved way down the starting pitching depth chart, from #6 down to... 10th or 15th. Spending the whole year in the bullpen seems like the most likely fate for Cingrani in 2015.
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Post by redsfanman on Oct 22, 2014 11:54:25 GMT -5
I guess I like a hypothetical Mat Latos-Yoenis Cespedes trade more now than I did initially, after reading other peoples' opinions. Cespedes' doubles and triples should be added to the list of "pros" relative to the Reds hitters you mentioned... True.
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Post by cbassxu on Oct 27, 2014 9:45:11 GMT -5
From Rotoworld:
A Red Sox insider told Bill Madden of the New York Daily News that the Red Sox coaches "all hate" outfielder Yoenis Cespedes.
"He marches to his own drum," said the unnamed source. The Red Sox acquired Cespedes from the A's in July for Jon Lester and were initially planning to work out a contract extension with the 29-year-old Cuban slugger, but he has not endeared himself to many people in Boston's clubhouse or front office and it now seems likely that he will be traded this winter. Cespedes, a free agent after 2015, signed on with Jay-Z's Roc Nation Sports last week.
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Post by Lark11 on Oct 27, 2014 10:36:26 GMT -5
From Rotoworld: A Red Sox insider told Bill Madden of the New York Daily News that the Red Sox coaches "all hate" outfielder Yoenis Cespedes. "He marches to his own drum," said the unnamed source. The Red Sox acquired Cespedes from the A's in July for Jon Lester and were initially planning to work out a contract extension with the 29-year-old Cuban slugger, but he has not endeared himself to many people in Boston's clubhouse or front office and it now seems likely that he will be traded this winter. Cespedes, a free agent after 2015, signed on with Jay-Z's Roc Nation Sports last week. For whatever reason, it seems like the BoSox are always willing to bash their players before they depart the organization. Strange.
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Post by psuhistory on Oct 27, 2014 11:08:51 GMT -5
From Rotoworld: A Red Sox insider told Bill Madden of the New York Daily News that the Red Sox coaches "all hate" outfielder Yoenis Cespedes. "He marches to his own drum," said the unnamed source. The Red Sox acquired Cespedes from the A's in July for Jon Lester and were initially planning to work out a contract extension with the 29-year-old Cuban slugger, but he has not endeared himself to many people in Boston's clubhouse or front office and it now seems likely that he will be traded this winter. Cespedes, a free agent after 2015, signed on with Jay-Z's Roc Nation Sports last week. For whatever reason, it seems like the BoSox are always willing to bash their players before they depart the organization. Strange. Oakland has a reputation as one of the more easygoing clubhouses, maybe not such an easy transition to Boston's, which seems to have a number of cliques...
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Post by Lark11 on Oct 27, 2014 11:11:40 GMT -5
For whatever reason, it seems like the BoSox are always willing to bash their players before they depart the organization. Strange. Oakland has a reputation as one of the more easygoing clubhouses, maybe not such an easy transition to Boston's, which seems to have a number of cliques... Good point, still you really have to put your back into it if you're going to work up a full blown "hate" for a player who was there for such a minimal amount of time.
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Post by psuhistory on Oct 27, 2014 11:30:01 GMT -5
Oakland has a reputation as one of the more easygoing clubhouses, maybe not such an easy transition to Boston's, which seems to have a number of cliques... Good point, still you really have to put your back into it if you're going to work up a full blown "hate" for a player who was there for such a minimal amount of time. And this reportedly is coming from the coaches too; it is kind of weird, but it does create the impression that he just hasn't fit into that environment in some way...
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Post by Yossarian on Oct 28, 2014 13:14:19 GMT -5
From Jeff Sullivan's Fangraphs chat:
9:48 Comment From Guest: Which team overpays Boston for Cespedes?
9:48 Jeff Sullivan: I could see the Reds working on something that involves one of their starting pitchers and also a prospect on Boston's end
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Post by psuhistory on Oct 28, 2014 15:30:14 GMT -5
From Jeff Sullivan's Fangraphs chat: 9:48 Comment From Guest: Which team overpays Boston for Cespedes?
9:48 Jeff Sullivan: I could see the Reds working on something that involves one of their starting pitchers and also a prospect on Boston's endThis would be very encouraging, partly because it doesn't seem like the type of deal the Reds would just make and then consider themselves done...
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Post by schellis on Oct 28, 2014 15:55:44 GMT -5
One thing the Reds have going for them that most other clubs don't have is that they have two other cuban born players on their roster. Still I think Cespedes is overrated I think he's just a rich man's Wily Mo.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 28, 2014 15:59:52 GMT -5
One thing the Reds have going for them that most other clubs don't have is that they have two other cuban born players on their roster. Still I think Cespedes is overrated I think he's just a rich man's Wily Mo. I'm not totally disagreeing with you, but can you imagine what numbers Cespedes could put up in GABP? Even if he performed at the same level he did in Oakland, that would be such a massive upgrade offensively in LF over last year it is worth considering.
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Post by bobroberts on Oct 28, 2014 16:27:47 GMT -5
One thing the Reds have going for them that most other clubs don't have is that they have two other cuban born players on their roster. Still I think Cespedes is overrated I think he's just a rich man's Wily Mo. To bad we no longer have Bronson Arroyo to offer up.
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Post by psuhistory on Oct 28, 2014 16:45:11 GMT -5
One interesting point of comparison involves the boom/bust damage quotient. In 2004, his 110-game season, 30% of Pena's 87 hits were home runs (26), making him a boom/bust icon. Over his three years in the league, Cespedes has scored 16% (2012: 129 games), 20% (2013: 135 games), and 14% (2014: 152 games). Pena was never anything like this kind of doubles hitter: he never hit 20, Cespedes hasn't hit fewer than 20; Cespedes also has 15 triples in three seasons, Pena hitting 5 over eight years in the league. Pena tended to strike out in 30 to 35 percent of his pas, Cespedes in more like 20 percent...
Both of them are power hitters who don't walk much, but one of them couldn't hold on as a part-time player and the other has been a regular force in the middle of the order. I'd be much less enthusiastic about paying for Cespedes in his 30s than about picking him up for one season now as part of this kind of deal...
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Post by Yossarian on Oct 28, 2014 16:54:53 GMT -5
From Jeff Sullivan's Fangraphs chat: 9:48 Comment From Guest: Which team overpays Boston for Cespedes?
9:48 Jeff Sullivan: I could see the Reds working on something that involves one of their starting pitchers and also a prospect on Boston's endThis would be very encouraging, partly because it doesn't seem like the type of deal the Reds would just make and then consider themselves done... If he can replicate his 2012 slash line and his 2014 defensive value (which was just about average), he'd be a great addition. I'm not really impressed by him, though.
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