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Post by jbuck on Jun 28, 2019 11:24:45 GMT -5
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Post by crashdavissports on Jun 28, 2019 14:14:18 GMT -5
I think so. But he doesn't have the same numbers as a lot of Hall of Famers. He was never a big power hitter, he was never a big RBI guy. He is/was I guess, just an OBP machine. Not sure if his collective stats get him there, but he is no doubt an All-Time great Red and deserves to be the Reds Hall of Fame.
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Post by Yossarian on Jun 28, 2019 21:37:56 GMT -5
Joey Votto was incredible in his peak. He has the best OPS in baseball from 2009-2017. Second in wRC and wRC+. He hit .315 (3rd best) and walked nearly as much as he k’d.
Joey Votto gets mischaracterized as some power hitting slugger and that was never what he went for. But he still slugged .544 over that span (5th best) and still averaged 28 homers each year (while missing time in there). He won the MVP in 2010 and a case can be made (and strongly made) that he should have won in 2017. His 2012, had he never hurt his knee, was going to be historic and a likely MVP campaign.
He is an absolute Hall of Famer.
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Post by donho97 on Jun 28, 2019 21:58:58 GMT -5
Harold Baines
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Post by kinsm on Jun 29, 2019 12:49:54 GMT -5
The answer is no, not yet. If he retired today or put up some bad #'s the next couple of years his overall line would look very similar to Lance Berkman's line. Berkman fell off the HOF voting on his first attempt.
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Post by kinsm on Jun 29, 2019 13:17:40 GMT -5
Getting closer to these numbers will make him a lock: 2,150 games - 9,000 pa's - 1,250 runs - 1,300 rbi's - 2,300 hits - 1,300 walks - 450 doubles - 350 homeruns. Another 300 games or so playing 1B defensively and another ASG and/or playoff run would help him too.
3 more average "Vottoesque" seasons after 2019 should lock him in.
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Post by floydgator on Jun 29, 2019 14:08:49 GMT -5
Yes, and easily. He's won an MVP and finished in the top 7 in voting 6 different times. He's got a ridiculous .424 lifetime OBP. He will finish with nice round #s - more than 2,000 hits (probably more than 2,500), more than 300 HRs, more than 1,000 RBI. He's got a lifetime BA of .309 through 13 years in the majors. He's led the NL in OBP 7 of the last 9 seasons.
The more I read and listen to MLB content, the more I realize how highly Votto is thought of outside of Cincy. He's getting in.
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Post by floydgator on Jun 29, 2019 14:11:11 GMT -5
The answer is no, not yet. If he retired today or put up some bad #'s the next couple of years his overall line would look very similar to Lance Berkman's line. Berkman fell off the HOF voting on his first attempt. Berkman never had the same level of respect as Votto. Votto is correctly considered one of the top 2 or 3 offensive players in baseball over the last 12 years. That's the definition of hall of fame. |
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Post by kinsm on Jun 29, 2019 18:18:05 GMT -5
The answer is no, not yet. If he retired today or put up some bad #'s the next couple of years his overall line would look very similar to Lance Berkman's line. Berkman fell off the HOF voting on his first attempt. Votto is correctly considered one of the top 2 or 3 offensive players in baseball over the last 12 years. That's the definition of hall of fame. I don't know what that even means! It's all about how you finish your career.Player A through his age 34 season: 1629 G - 6836 PA - 1017 R - 1675 H - 327 HR - 1099 RBI - 82 SB - 1057 BB - 1136 K - .296 BA - .409 OBP - .545 SLG - 145 OPS+ (bRef: 48.6 oWAR and -8.1 dWAR) 5 All-Star Games, 5 times finished in top 10 MVP voting over that span (4 x in top 5) Player B through age his 34 season: 1575 G - 6764 PA - 930 R - 1729 H - 269 HR - 897 RBI - 74 SB - 1104 BB - 1188 K - .311 BA - .427 OBP - .530 SLG - 155 OPS+ (bRef: 54.4 oWAR and -4.7 dWAR) 6 All-Star Games, 6 times finished in top 10 MVP voting over that span (3 x in top 5 including 1 win) Notes: Player A and Player B both played for just 1 team during that span. Player A's team made it to the playoffs 4 times over that span and he played in 34 total playoff games over that span. Player B's team made it to the playoffs 3 times over that span and he played in 9 total playoff games over that span. Player A competed against some of the most PED infested players of all-time, Player B has played during advanced testing. Player B is better than A over that span, but it's not by a huge margin. Player A went on to play in just 250 more big league games scattered over 3 seasons, though he did manage to earn another ASG appearance and his one and only WS Ring over those 3 seasons. Player B is still playing and is entering his age 35 season. Player A is Lance Berkman, who just failed to get 2% of the vote in his first year as eligible for induction, Player B is Joey Votto. sports.usatoday.com/ncaa/finances/ |
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Post by dukecrunchybagel on Jun 29, 2019 21:55:40 GMT -5
Probably not.
He had some incredibly good years, but looking at where he is now vs. where he is likely to end his career he won't hit any major milestones (e.g. 3000 hits, 400 HRs, etc.) nor is he likely to get much post season buzz at the rate the Reds continually to fail to advance.
Definitely a top-tier player but not a HOFer.
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Post by scottscudder on Jun 30, 2019 23:57:03 GMT -5
Getting closer to these numbers will make him a lock: 2,150 games - 9,000 pa's - 1,250 runs - 1,300 rbi's - 2,300 hits - 1,300 walks - 450 doubles - 350 homeruns. Another 300 games or so playing 1B defensively and another ASG and/or playoff run would help him too. 3 more average "Vottoesque" seasons after 2019 should lock him in. Agreed. I think he has had peak years that are certainly HOF worthy, but there is more work to do in terms of career numbers. The hit total is especially important, in my opinion, because right now it's hard for me to see him getting to 350 HRs. I think 2,500 hits would be huge for him, but I don't know if he can get there. |
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Post by DocDirk on Jul 1, 2019 14:28:43 GMT -5
Not quite yet if he's being judged vs history. If he's judged vs his current peers then I think he's in.
Won't get 3000 hits. Won't get 500 HRs. Won't win multiple MVPs (though he was robbed in 2017 of accomplishing this.)
But the game has shifted some away from hit counting. He's been an on-base machine and is widely known as a premier guy for this. Career OPS+ north of 150. Needs to rack up at least 6 more career WAR to make it more comfortable.
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Post by kinsm on Aug 25, 2020 21:38:38 GMT -5
If he limps through the end of his career like this then I'm going with a firm no vote.
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searay
Bid McPhee
Posts: 1,122
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Post by searay on Aug 25, 2020 21:50:40 GMT -5
If he limps through the end of his career like this then I'm going with a firm no vote. I agree. He's hurting his Hall of Fame chances. Dale Murphy did the same to his Hall of Fame chances |
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Post by schellis on Aug 26, 2020 9:29:44 GMT -5
He’s playing now like a 40 plus year old Pete Rose. No power no speed only walks. That isn’t going to get it done that isn’t a normal age progression it’s falling off a cliff.
Votto is going up there with a walk first approach instead of making hard contact. I thought he was doing hard contact the first week and it looked like it might be a big year for him but now he’s even worse than last year.
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