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Post by tiberius3108 on Aug 3, 2015 19:20:46 GMT -5
Well, this is a stupid question. Cozart. All day long and twice on Sunday's. Yeah cozart a career 245 hitter yeah real stupid question!! Your probably one of the ones that hated him till his couple good months this year!! Suarez is a big upgrade at the dish and his glove must get better. As I recall there were many here that said that about Encarnacion....
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Post by scottscudder on Aug 3, 2015 21:49:50 GMT -5
Yeah cozart a career 245 hitter yeah real stupid question!! Your probably one of the ones that hated him till his couple good months this year!! Suarez is a big upgrade at the dish and his glove must get better. As I recall there were many here that said that about Encarnacion.... Defensively, Suarez is probably only the 4th best SS on the team. His destiny is at 2B, not SS.
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Post by The Duke on Aug 3, 2015 22:26:24 GMT -5
As I recall there were many here that said that about Encarnacion.... Defensively, Suarez is probably only the 4th best SS on the team. His destiny is at 2B, not SS. Possibly 3rd base if we can't resign Frazier.
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Post by scottscudder on Aug 4, 2015 8:57:27 GMT -5
Defensively, Suarez is probably only the 4th best SS on the team. His destiny is at 2B, not SS. Possibly 3rd base if we can't resign Frazier. Possibly. Assuming they extend Frazier at some point though, I think the real question is Suarez vs. Phillips rather than Suarez vs. Cozart. BP is in decline and only going to be on the team for two more years maximum. He is really the odd man out from a "reboot" perspective. If they can trade BP somehow and move Suarez to 2B, that's the best option. Otherwise, there are three alternatives: 1) Send Suarez to AAA and let him play everyday, honing his defensive skills at 2B. Sub for BP when he is injured. 2) Keep Suarez at the MLB level as a super utility player. Give BP lots of days off so that he can get some significant playing time at 2B. 3) Make Suarez the starting 2B over BP. This move makes sense in terms of building for the future, as long as the Reds can stomach having a $14 million bench player. A huge issue here is BP's contract, which was just a terrible move for the Reds. It's hurting the team in a number of ways - it's hugely expensive, it ties up resources that could be better spent on other players, and now it will block the reboot from a roster standpoint.
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Post by redsfanman on Aug 4, 2015 9:58:46 GMT -5
Something to factor in about Suarez being the 2b of the future is that Alex Blandino has recently switched from SS to 2b. Previously it was just speculation that he'd end up there, but he's started the last 6 games or so at 2b. Of course Blandino is unlikely to be called up before next September, at the earliest. What the Reds have is a secondbaseman of the future, what they don't have is a 3b of the future.
Benching Phillips in favor of Suarez seems likely to be a very unpopular and controversial move, as the former is known for his slick defense regardless of range; the other is known for bumbling balls hit right at him.
Brandon Phillips' skills have declined from the days he was one of the best secondbasemen, both offensively and defensively, in all of baseball. On the other hand, in my opinion, he's far from having declined enough that benching him becomes reasonable. Many teams in baseball have worse secondbasemen than him (although in many cases they're less expensive). By WAR he's middle of the pack.
It seems like the $12m Phillips makes this year often makes it... perhaps undesirable, perhaps impossible... to fairly evaluate his performance, as he deals with questions of whether he lives up to expectation (total success vs total failure) with little regard to how he actually compares to other players today. Is Suarez going to outperform Phillips in 2016 and 2017? Maybe, but I wouldn't bet on it. Is starting Suarez over Phillips in 2016 or 2017 going to improve the team or anything like that? Probably not, it'll just make people angrier about Phillips' contract for new reasons.
If and when Phillips has a collapse like Ricky Weeks' 2013 season, then I might consider benching Phillips.
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Post by scottscudder on Aug 4, 2015 17:59:28 GMT -5
Good point on Blandino. I wasn't considering him, although he's still just a prospect, and his arrival at the MLB level may still be a ways out. At one point some thought that Chris Valaika was the 2B of the future.
If Suarez is actually going to be the future at 3B, then you either need to make him a super utility guy or send him back to AAA to learn the position. No way will he displace Frazier.
Now if we get back to thinking of Suarez at 2B...
I don't actually think they will bench BP and give 2B to Suarez. Highly unlikely. They are most likely to make Suarez a super utility guy.
I do think it's possible Suarez could outperform BP in 2016/17. BP is no longer stellar, and he's declining. Suarez is on the upswing. That being said, I'm not sure that 2016/17 performance is the criteria that should actually be used to make a decision here. Really, I think it's more about what would best position Suarez for success at 2B in 2017 and beyond. We're in "reboot" mode after all. Sending Suarez back to AAA or starting him in favor of BP are probably the best options to progress Suarez, although like I said I think they will make him a super utility guy - which may be the least effective approach in terms of developing him.
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Post by redskoolaiddrinker on Aug 4, 2015 22:46:21 GMT -5
Coax BP into demanding a trade by telling BP after this season that he's not going to be a ful-time starter.
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devils
Ted Kluszewski
Posts: 769
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Post by devils on Aug 9, 2015 0:25:47 GMT -5
Why not give Suarez a shot at leading off or batting 2nd? I know it's a small sample size but he simply keeps giving quality ab's.
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Post by corpjet on Aug 9, 2015 7:21:41 GMT -5
agree on moving him up in the order for sure......and long term I do see him as our 2B
with all that being said if Winker/Waldrop?Y-Rod aren't in the show next year put him in LF
If KidQuick Billy Hamilton can't stick in CF maybe thats a destination for him as well
Until all the cards fall make him a super utility guy and get him the lineup 5 days a week
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devils
Ted Kluszewski
Posts: 769
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Post by devils on Aug 9, 2015 10:14:26 GMT -5
agree on moving him up in the order for sure......and long term I do see him as our 2B with all that being said if Winker/Waldrop?Y-Rod aren't in the show next year put him in LF If KidQuick Billy Hamilton can't stick in CF maybe thats a destination for him as well Until all the cards fall make him a super utility guy and get him the lineup 5 days a week Yeah billy really must make a jump next season at least in the 250 range. His offseason coming up is really going to determine if he's the everyday cf and leadoff hitter we need. Just simply hits the ball in the air to much and his bunting skills are terrible.
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Post by scottscudder on Aug 9, 2015 16:13:35 GMT -5
I thought it was a little interesting last night that Suarez homered, pulling to within one HR of BP's total (7) in 200 fewer ABs. And then an inning or two later Phillips himself hit a HR.
I wonder if BP is feeling any pressure from Suarez, who is completely outclassing him offensively. He has to be aware that a youth movement is afoot, and that he is unlikely to be a part of the Reds' future.
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Post by Lark11 on Aug 9, 2015 17:06:17 GMT -5
I don't see any way that the answer to this question is Zack Cozart.
There are a number of reasons why it should be Suarez, but, even setting aside those reasons, we need change. Gimme something different.
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Post by tnredsfan on Aug 9, 2015 21:30:37 GMT -5
Both. Trade BP just for salary relief to any team that will take him, presumably a contender. He's not a terrible hitter yet, but it's coming. His power is mostly gone, and he still rarely walks. And although he still flashes some Web Gem-quality leather every so often, he's lost a step defensively, too. And I think he could still clear waivers.
(yes, I know that BP has 10/5 no-trade rights, but you have to think he'd want a shot at a WS ring, and that's not gonna happen in Cincy for at least 2 more years, probably more.)
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Post by crashdavissports on Aug 10, 2015 15:09:19 GMT -5
Don't even know what you guys are talking about. Suarez, while not the fielder of Cozart, he is no where comparable to the defensive ability of Phillips at 2B. Phillips even out classes Cozart in that respect. So you want to get rid of the best fielder we have in Phillips to replace him with Suarez, while keeping Cozart's incredibly inconsistent bat in our lineup for the sake of better defense. You guys are a walking contradiction. Yes, Phillips is older, and expensive, and probably should have been asked to waive his no trade clause before the deadline. Fact is, he wasn't, and may be the best fielding 2B I have ever seen in my life. Phillips is still batting around .280 with a little pop in his bat and has a little speed, even at his age.
There is not a single situation that should involve Cozart over Suarez or Phillips.
If Hamilton wasn't such a damn disappointment at leadoff, we could actually move Phillips down in the order a little and be given a much better alternative at the bottom of the lineup.
Suarez is the best hitting SS we have had since Larkin. He is no Larkin defensively, and he is not going to win any gold gloves, but he is serviceable there. I am cool that when Blandino is ready, they have a combo of Blandino and Suarez up the middle. Regardless where they put the two, that looks to be the future of our middle infield. Cozart is a defensive replacement / utility type bench player where his inconsistencies won't hurt us on a daily basis. Maybe he could provide a little pop or speed off the bench. I am good with that.
Suarez has come in here and won a spot on this team, and Phillips has never done anything to lose his spot on this team. Face it Cozart lovers, he no longer has a future as a starter here in Cicninnati. Besides, those suggesting moving Suarez to 3rd, he doesn't have the projected power to be a decent 3rd base replacement. The second you put him there, he becomes a light hitting disappointment in your lineup and people will be clamoring to get rid of him and then you are left with less offense all the way around.
Suarez is either a SS or 2B only, and with his offense, he projects to be an above average player at those positions offensively. Phillips has always been an above average player, but since he is not hitting 30 home runs a year anymore, everyone feels he is not worthy of being on this team. Greatest fielding 2B of all time maybe (as I have obviously not seen all of them at only 40 years old), but I can't imagine anyone better defensively than Phillips...equal maybe, but not better.
Plus, a .285 / 10 / 65 season is still a pretty damn good season for a standard 2B, one of the leaders of this team and a fan favorite with all that he does in the community.
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Post by Yossarian on Aug 10, 2015 17:23:02 GMT -5
Plus, a .285 / 10 / 65 season is still a pretty damn good season for a standard 2B, one of the leaders of this team and a fan favorite with all that he does in the community. This is the kind of Fecal Matter that absolutely does not matter and should not, in any way, play a role in contract negotiations and roster construction.
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