devils
Ted Kluszewski
Posts: 769
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Post by devils on Aug 14, 2015 23:54:54 GMT -5
I've just glanced through this thread, and the BP debate is silly. He's not going anywhere. He has full 10/5 rights and hasn't given any indication that he wants to leave. The "let's trade BP!" has sailed. As for Suarez vs Cozart... it should be Suarez. I don't even think it's debatable. He's cheaper, is a better hitter, and will improve defensively. Cozart has probably peaked and is about to get expensive (well, expensive for the Reds anyway). So much wisdom in a single post. It got you attention obviously!! Suarez must play everyday regardless of where they put him!!
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Post by scottscudder on Aug 15, 2015 0:21:12 GMT -5
Scottyboy, are you the same guy who said Cozart was on a HOF path this time last year? Because if so, I can't carry on this conversation anymore. Indeed I am. I was going to ask people to compare the offensive numbers of the age 29 seasons for Cozart and Concepcion, but I figured people's heads would explode. Yes, I admit it. I'm a Cozart fan and think that he is underappreciated. I also think that, looking across the posts, my points have not really been invalidated. There seems to be general agreement that it would be better to remove BP from the roster than Cozart, and the only pro-BP arguments seem to be "he's a fan favorite", "he won't agree to a trade", and "he makes too much to be benched". To me, those are exactly the kinds of arguments a team that is in rebuild mode should not consider. I respect everyone's opinion on this though.
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Post by vtreds22 on Aug 15, 2015 11:40:26 GMT -5
I've just glanced through this thread, and the BP debate is silly. He's not going anywhere. He has full 10/5 rights and hasn't given any indication that he wants to leave. The "let's trade BP!" has sailed. As for Suarez vs Cozart... it should be Suarez. I don't even think it's debatable. He's cheaper, is a better hitter, and will improve defensively. Cozart has probably peaked and is about to get expensive (well, expensive for the Reds anyway). So much wisdom in a single post. You're making me blush!
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Post by vtreds22 on Aug 15, 2015 11:46:45 GMT -5
Scottyboy, are you the same guy who said Cozart was on a HOF path this time last year? Because if so, I can't carry on this conversation anymore. Indeed I am. I was going to ask people to compare the offensive numbers of the age 29 seasons for Cozart and Concepcion, but I figured people's heads would explode. Yes, I admit it. I'm a Cozart fan and think that he is underappreciated. I also think that, looking across the posts, my points have not really been invalidated. There seems to be general agreement that it would be better to remove BP from the roster than Cozart, and the only pro-BP arguments seem to be "he's a fan favorite", "he won't agree to a trade", and "he makes too much to be benched". To me, those are exactly the kinds of arguments a team that is in rebuild mode should not consider. I respect everyone's opinion on this though. The problem is that this isn't fantasy baseball. You can't just drop BP and stick Cozart at SS/2B. Like it or not, he IS a fan favorite and you would have a hard time getting Bob on board with a trade of BP. Like it or not, he DOES have 10/5 rights and has given no indication that he wants a trade; even if he did, how long do you think the potential list of suitors is for a 34 year old 2B who is not what he once was defensively, has lost his power, and makes a lot of money for the next two years? And like it or not, the Reds aren't going to bench him. He would have to completely fall of a cliff for that to happen, and he hasn't. He's actually having a solid offensive season (much better than Cozart's career numbers). Yes, you're higher on Cozart on most (I'm not even going down the Concepcion road with you again, since it's beyond insane), but you're making it seem like we can remove BP from the lineup with ease. If this was fantasy baseball, sure, we could. It's not though. There are real, qualitative factors that you're pretending like aren't there. They are. BP isn't going anywhere. I'm not saying that I don't want him to; I'd trade him tomorrow if I could. The reality is however is that he's going to play out his contract as a Red. May as well accept it.
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devils
Ted Kluszewski
Posts: 769
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Post by devils on Aug 15, 2015 12:30:30 GMT -5
People act like BP"S d is not what it once was. He may have lost a small bit but thats still better than 95% of the others out there.
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Post by vtreds22 on Aug 15, 2015 13:36:31 GMT -5
People act like BP"S d is not what it once was. He may have lost a small bit but thats still better than 95% of the others out there. Not really. If you believe in advanced defensive metrics, they'll tell you that BP is no longer the elite defensive 2B he once was. He's still above-average, but not even close to be considered elite at this point. He still makes the flashy play, and I'm not suggesting he's bad by any stretch of the imagination. He simply doesn't get to as many balls as he used to. His defense is definitely not what it once was; the eye test will tell you that, as will advanced metrics.
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Post by crashdavissports on Aug 15, 2015 23:48:38 GMT -5
Just curious because I don't know....
but the balls that Phillips got to before versus now, does it say where that ball was hit and how hard it was hit, to determine if Phillips really had a fair chance of fielding some of these. I have seen balls scalded in the hole this year, where as Phillips still gets to plenty of balls in the hole and has a tremendous range if the ball is not scalded to a certain spot.
I just do not know...based on positioning of the player, where the ball is hit in relation to that player, does it also have the MPH in which that ball was traveling to that zone and how legitimately that player has a chance to get to it?
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Post by psuhistory on Aug 16, 2015 5:40:02 GMT -5
I just do not know...based on positioning of the player, where the ball is hit in relation to that player, does it also have the MPH in which that ball was traveling to that zone and how legitimately that player has a chance to get to it? StatCast registers the velocities involved in each play, so this information should be available to the teams now, even if it's not consistently available to the public...
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Post by Lark11 on Aug 16, 2015 8:58:06 GMT -5
I just do not know...based on positioning of the player, where the ball is hit in relation to that player, does it also have the MPH in which that ball was traveling to that zone and how legitimately that player has a chance to get to it? StatCast registers the velocities involved in each play, so this information should be available to the teams now, even if it's not consistently available to the public... Yeah, StatCast should be a complete gamechanger for evaluating defense. Much of the fog surrounding defensive metrics should be lifted by StatCast. Route efficiency, top speed, and first step/anticipation are all easily measurable, as are the speed and trajectory of the batted ball. Further, it should become much, much simpler to account for the defensive shift and positioning. It should be a quantum leap forward for defensive analysis.
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Post by scottscudder on Aug 16, 2015 14:58:01 GMT -5
For what it's worth, in a postgame interview the other night, I saw Price say that Suarez will be ready to play multiple positions once Cozart is back. So assuming that nobody gets traded and the Price is still in charge, it sounds like the current plan is to make Suarez a super utility guy.
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Post by psuhistory on Aug 16, 2015 17:50:56 GMT -5
StatCast registers the velocities involved in each play, so this information should be available to the teams now, even if it's not consistently available to the public... Yeah, StatCast should be a complete gamechanger for evaluating defense. Much of the fog surrounding defensive metrics should be lifted by StatCast. Route efficiency, top speed, and first step/anticipation are all easily measurable, as are the speed and trajectory of the batted ball. Further, it should become much, much simpler to account for the defensive shift and positioning. It should be a quantum leap forward for defensive analysis. Seems like MLBAM should be doing more to make this generally available: even if it involved some type of separate subscription, there's likely to be a lot of interest...
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devils
Ted Kluszewski
Posts: 769
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Post by devils on Aug 16, 2015 19:44:05 GMT -5
For what it's worth, in a postgame interview the other night, I saw Price say that Suarez will be ready to play multiple positions once Cozart is back. So assuming that nobody gets traded and the Price is still in charge, it sounds like the current plan is to make Suarez a super utility guy. Hopefully price won't be the one to make that decision in 2016!! If Suarez finishes at 280 plus I just can't see benching this young kid. Someone should be dealt or benched to get his stick in the lineup!!
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Post by crashdavissports on Aug 16, 2015 20:45:59 GMT -5
Maybe they can put Suarez in LF for a year. I just don't see him being a bench player, and I can't see any other position in the infield that Suarez could battle for as Votto, Phillips, Frazier are the 3 bases, and all that is even debatable is SS.
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Post by breakerslim on Aug 16, 2015 21:12:08 GMT -5
"Yes, I admit it. I'm a Cozart fan"
You don't hear that everyday.
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Post by kinsm on Aug 16, 2015 21:48:54 GMT -5
For what it's worth, in a postgame interview the other night, I saw Price say that Suarez will be ready to play multiple positions once Cozart is back. So assuming that nobody gets traded and the Price is still in charge, it sounds like the current plan is to make Suarez a super utility guy. That would be a pretty dumb ass decision considering how terrible this clubs' offense is.
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