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Post by kinsm on Aug 12, 2015 17:47:01 GMT -5
Cozart has zero chance of replacing BP at second base in two years, he's under contract for the same length. Had he had another year this season like the last two we'd be talking about nontendering him. He needs to be traded.
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Post by scottscudder on Aug 13, 2015 8:20:18 GMT -5
Cozart has zero chance of replacing BP at second base in two years, he's under contract for the same length. Had he had another year this season like the last two we'd be talking about nontendering him. He needs to be traded. Agree to disagree. Just answer this one question honestly though. If you could remove either Cozart or Phillips from the roster, which would you remove? I'm pretty sure the Reds would most definitely say Phillips.
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Post by crashdavissports on Aug 13, 2015 11:27:57 GMT -5
Maybe because of price, but not because of talent. I think they would go with Phillips 10 out of 10 times. So if you have the money, why would they replace Phillips?
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Post by mackenzie45220 on Aug 13, 2015 12:04:59 GMT -5
I really think this is a hard question to answer. But I don't think we can make the decision. Cozart is one of the MLB's 5 best defensive shortstops. He doesn't make the flashy plays of guys like Phillips or Simmons, but his positioning and footwork are outstanding and he has a strong arm. He actually does have some power; among shortstops with at least 500PA since 2011, Cozart ranks 18th out of 75 in ISO power. He was on pace for 27 home runs this season prior to the injury. I don't think that is realistic, but 15-20 is; hitting only 4 in 2014 was an anomaly. His strikeout rate has been getting better every year for a while now, but his walk rate has always been pretty poor. He had a bit of an uptick in that regard this year, but it was probably a fluke.
Suarez also has plenty of power at shortstop; he didn't get many extra base hits last season in Detroit, but based on his minor league numbers, that was a fluke. His K rate is ugly now and it was ugly in the minors. His walk rate has been pretty bad this year, but it was always pretty good in the minors and with Detroit last season. Glove was always average in the minors.
For me, it depends on the health of Cozart's knee. If that takes away from his range or messes him up offensive in any way, I'll say Suarez. If not, Cozart's defense is pretty great. Really hard to choose.
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Post by kinsm on Aug 13, 2015 12:24:20 GMT -5
Cozart has zero chance of replacing BP at second base in two years, he's under contract for the same length. Had he had another year this season like the last two we'd be talking about nontendering him. He needs to be traded. Agree to disagree. Just answer this one question honestly though. If you could remove either Cozart or Phillips from the roster, which would you remove? I'm pretty sure the Reds would most definitely say Phillips. Of course they would, one is making 4 times more than the other, and they are going no where. That doesn't mean they'd rather have Cozart over BP in the lineup. Over the previous 3 seasons, and nearly 1,800 PA's Cozart combined to hit .241 - .280 - .362 (one of the worst hitters in the majors over that span). BP has a complete no-trade clause and there is no reason to believe he's willing to waive it to go anywhere. That means Cozart is the one who must go.
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Post by bphillips4gg on Aug 13, 2015 23:27:21 GMT -5
Whomever they choose to play at short, Suarez has got to be in the lineup. The dude can flat-out hit.
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devils
Ted Kluszewski
Posts: 769
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Post by devils on Aug 14, 2015 2:12:32 GMT -5
Whomever they choose to play at short, Suarez has got to be in the lineup. The dude can flat-out hit. Just when you think Suarez might be going into to a slump he comes up with a big game!! Don't give Walt any credit for this trade though just keep on bashing him!!
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Post by quantumfootball on Aug 14, 2015 2:55:02 GMT -5
But Suarez isn't as good as Jim Edmonds.
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Post by scottscudder on Aug 14, 2015 21:59:35 GMT -5
Agree to disagree. Just answer this one question honestly though. If you could remove either Cozart or Phillips from the roster, which would you remove? I'm pretty sure the Reds would most definitely say Phillips. Of course they would, one is making 4 times more than the other, and they are going no where. That doesn't mean they'd rather have Cozart over BP in the lineup. Over the previous 3 seasons, and nearly 1,800 PA's Cozart combined to hit .241 - .280 - .362 (one of the worst hitters in the majors over that span). BP has a complete no-trade clause and there is no reason to believe he's willing to waive it to go anywhere. That means Cozart is the one who must go. Well, last I checked, money plays a large role in today's game. I would definitely want Cozart plus $20 million extra to spend on other needs over the next two years than having Phillips in the lineup. If you want to assume a false reality though and ignore the financials, that's cool. Even ignoring the money side, I would take Cozart over Phillips. BP is showing decline, and at the end of his contract he'll be 36. While he is still an excellent defender, he' slowing down and plays a less important position defensively, a position that Suarez is likely better suited for. No need to block the young guy. There is really no reason to have BP on the team for the reboot. Cozart, albeit a small sample, had one of his best seasons offensively, and despite half as many ABs, still leads BP in home runs. Shortstops that play elite defense with 15-20 HR power, at under $5 million per season, have value. Furthermore, Cozart will still be just 32 at the end of his contract, and may have a role on the team after 2017. He is young enough that he actually could still have a role on a team that is rebooting. We'll have to agree to disagree. But to me the choice is clear: Cozart and Suarez over Phillips.
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Post by vtreds22 on Aug 14, 2015 22:04:15 GMT -5
I've just glanced through this thread, and the BP debate is silly. He's not going anywhere. He has full 10/5 rights and hasn't given any indication that he wants to leave. The "let's trade BP!" has sailed.
As for Suarez vs Cozart... it should be Suarez. I don't even think it's debatable. He's cheaper, is a better hitter, and will improve defensively. Cozart has probably peaked and is about to get expensive (well, expensive for the Reds anyway).
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Post by scottscudder on Aug 14, 2015 22:12:21 GMT -5
I've just glanced through this thread, and the BP debate is silly. He's not going anywhere. He has full 10/5 rights and hasn't given any indication that he wants to leave. The "let's trade BP!" has sailed. As for Suarez vs Cozart... it should be Suarez. I don't even think it's debatable. He's cheaper, is a better hitter, and will improve defensively. Cozart has probably peaked and is about to get expensive (well, expensive for the Reds anyway). I think it's likely that BP won't be traded. Even if he isn't, I'd still play Cozart and Suarez ahead of BP. They both align much better to the Reds long term strategy. And not starting might actually agitate BP enough to be open to a trade.
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Post by vtreds22 on Aug 14, 2015 22:31:14 GMT -5
I've just glanced through this thread, and the BP debate is silly. He's not going anywhere. He has full 10/5 rights and hasn't given any indication that he wants to leave. The "let's trade BP!" has sailed. As for Suarez vs Cozart... it should be Suarez. I don't even think it's debatable. He's cheaper, is a better hitter, and will improve defensively. Cozart has probably peaked and is about to get expensive (well, expensive for the Reds anyway). I think it's likely that BP won't be traded. Even if he isn't, I'd still play Cozart and Suarez ahead of BP. They both align much better to the Reds long term strategy. And not starting might actually agitate BP enough to be open to a trade. As long as BP is here he'll play. He's a fan favorite and is being paid a lot of money. They're not going to sit him on the bench, and they're not going to bench him in hopes of pissing him off badly enough to demand a trade. I don't think Cozart has much of a LT future with the Reds himself. He just turned 30 and is about to hit arbitration, and the Reds have a kid who is hitting .300 with power in his place. We don't have a SS in the system even close to being ML ready, and Blandino probably projects more as a 2B long-term. Moving Suarez off of SS would be a mistake, IMO. If I'm the Reds, I don't even offer Cozart arbitration this winter, though I suspect they will.
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Post by kinsm on Aug 14, 2015 23:41:30 GMT -5
I've just glanced through this thread, and the BP debate is silly. He's not going anywhere. He has full 10/5 rights and hasn't given any indication that he wants to leave. The "let's trade BP!" has sailed. As for Suarez vs Cozart... it should be Suarez. I don't even think it's debatable. He's cheaper, is a better hitter, and will improve defensively. Cozart has probably peaked and is about to get expensive (well, expensive for the Reds anyway). I think it's likely that BP won't be traded. Even if he isn't, I'd still play Cozart and Suarez ahead of BP. They both align much better to the Reds long term strategy. And not starting might actually agitate BP enough to be open to a trade. Benching BP has....0% chance of happening.
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Post by kinsm on Aug 14, 2015 23:43:20 GMT -5
Scottyboy, are you the same guy who said Cozart was on a HOF path this time last year? Because if so, I can't carry on this conversation anymore.
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Post by Lark11 on Aug 14, 2015 23:46:13 GMT -5
I've just glanced through this thread, and the BP debate is silly. He's not going anywhere. He has full 10/5 rights and hasn't given any indication that he wants to leave. The "let's trade BP!" has sailed. As for Suarez vs Cozart... it should be Suarez. I don't even think it's debatable. He's cheaper, is a better hitter, and will improve defensively. Cozart has probably peaked and is about to get expensive (well, expensive for the Reds anyway). So much wisdom in a single post.
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