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Post by overrated on Jul 27, 2015 20:16:23 GMT -5
I continue to like what I see from Iglesias. I'm not sure if he will be able to develop the stamina to be a starter, but I'm glad the Reds are giving him a chance. It's not hard to envision him as a solid third starter or possibly a number 2 if things go well.
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Post by vtreds22 on Jul 27, 2015 21:17:56 GMT -5
I continue to like what I see from Iglesias. I'm not sure if he will be able to develop the stamina to be a starter, but I'm glad the Reds are giving him a chance. It's not hard to envision him as a solid third starter or possibly a number 2 if things go well. I really like Iglesias. He has great stuff. I'm not sure why he's struggling so much the 2nd and 3rd time through the order, but I believe it's something that he will likely improve on in time. I actually like him much more than Lorenzen as a SP prospect, personally. Of the guys listed in the title, I believe Lorenzen is the most likely to end up in the pen. I'm not writing him off as a SP yet, but I'm not sure if he has the stuff to be a starter. I think he can be a pretty good power righty out of the pen though. I think the other three are SPs with various degrees of upside. I don't believe DeSclafani will be much better than he is now, but there is value in a guy who can give you a 4.00ish ERA every fifth day 200 innings a year (assuming he can give you the innings). I agree that Iglesias has #2 upside. Stephenson has the highest ceiling of any of the four, but possibly the lowest floor as well.
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Post by redsfanman on Jul 27, 2015 23:13:38 GMT -5
I agree that DeSclafani probably won't get much better than he is now, but he's also been far better prepared to enter the rotation than Lorenzen or Iglesias. He's been preparing for years for this. He's clearly the closest to a finished product.
DeSclafani, age 25, 73 games, 65 starts, 354.1 IP in the minors Lorenzen, age 23, 49 games, 28 starts, 160.2 IP in the minors Iglesias, age 25, 6 games, 6 starts, 29 IP in the minors, not including Cuba and the Arizona Fall League.
With more work I think Lorenzen will turn into a good starter, but I understand the healthy skepticism. Despite Lorenzen's most recent start, it's impressive what a good year he's had with so much less preparation than DeSclafani. It's taken so many adjustments by Lorenzen to get to where he is now, I'd be shocked if he just gave up on adjusting now. I'm looking forward to seeing how he does next year - where he's at with his control and pitches. As his control improves his strikeouts should increase and walks decrease, making him far better.
Iglesias is certainly going through the biggest adjustment - adjusting to a new life outside of Cuba, adjusting to MLB, adjusting to throwing again, throwing more than ever, and adjusting to a whole new role as a starting pitcher. I've been very impressed by his starts, in general, and keep feeling that the box scores don't represent quite how well he pitched. He's looked a lot better than his ERA suggests, in my opinion. I look forward to seeing him in future seasons. At the moment he's my favorite Reds starter to watch, not because I expect him to give the team the best chance to win, but because he's the most interesting one.
If the Reds are successful with developing a series of starting pitchers over the next couple of years I could see certain ones, perhaps DeSclafani, being traded for hitters. If enough younger guys seem ready by midseason next year (Stephenson, Finnegan, Lamb, Moscot, Reed), and DeSclafani does well again, they could look at trading him - and his years of affordable control - at the trade deadline. Just something to consider... he's not a top of the rotation starter, but controllable young starters don't hit the trade market too often. I think that's a far more likely solution to a 2016 rotation crunch than delegating one of these young prospects to the bullpen early.
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Post by psuhistory on Jul 28, 2015 7:57:30 GMT -5
I continue to like what I see from Iglesias. I'm not sure if he will be able to develop the stamina to be a starter, but I'm glad the Reds are giving him a chance. It's not hard to envision him as a solid third starter or possibly a number 2 if things go well. I really like Iglesias. He has great stuff. I'm not sure why he's struggling so much the 2nd and 3rd time through the order, but I believe it's something that he will likely improve on in time. I like the multiple pitches and arm angles from Iglesias but improved command would be a major plus. This issue burned him again last night, though the stamina problem is gradually resolving itself...
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Post by redsfanman on Jul 28, 2015 12:34:03 GMT -5
Iglesias has now pitched 40.2 innings with 42 strikeouts. Being able to strike out over a batter an inning seems promising.
Iglesias' ERA is now the highest amongst Reds starters (5.53), while his FIP is the lowest amongst (remaining) Reds starters (3.61).
2.9 BB/9 9.3 K/9 3.23 SO/BB
Opposing hitters are batting .285 off Iglesias, but with a .361 BABIP. The team average for pitchers is a .288 BABIP.
By comparison they're hitting .268 off Lorenzen with a .283 BABIP... .258/.297 off DeSclafani, .246/.273 off Leake. For some reason balls hit off Iglesias are far more likely to fall for hits, which seems likely to change with a larger sample size.
Iglesias is already second on the team in HBP - Cueto had 6, Iglesias 5, Josh Smith 4, Cingrani and Lorenzen 3.
So, yeah, some random numbers that I thought were interesting enough.
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Post by walstib on Jul 29, 2015 11:50:30 GMT -5
Where do get that I believe that these young arms are not Cy Young candidates as rookies? From this thread's initiation I merely stated that I believe that these 4 will eventually be relievers. From there imaginations took over. I'm not imagining you stating that DeSclafani's May numbers was him "regressing". Your posts throughout this thread aren't really based on anything. It's just you blathering on about how they're bullpen arms but you haven't backed it up with anything that would suggest that you know what you're talking about. I don't blather. It's against my religion. I'm letting these pitchers back up what I'm saying. Give it time.
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Post by redsfanman on Jul 29, 2015 11:54:21 GMT -5
I'm not imagining you stating that DeSclafani's May numbers was him "regressing". Your posts throughout this thread aren't really based on anything. It's just you blathering on about how they're bullpen arms but you haven't backed it up with anything that would suggest that you know what you're talking about. I don't blather. It's against my religion. I'm letting these pitchers back up what I'm saying. Give it time. Doesn't your religion compel you to believe in things? It seems like belief is a big part of religion. Seems like you might consider believing in prospects...
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Post by walstib on Jul 29, 2015 11:55:21 GMT -5
I continue to like what I see from Iglesias. I'm not sure if he will be able to develop the stamina to be a starter, but I'm glad the Reds are giving him a chance. It's not hard to envision him as a solid third starter or possibly a number 2 if things go well. I really like Iglesias. He has great stuff. I'm not sure why he's struggling so much the 2nd and 3rd time through the order, but I believe it's something that he will likely improve on in time. I actually like him much more than Lorenzen as a SP prospect, personally. Of the guys listed in the title, I believe Lorenzen is the most likely to end up in the pen. I'm not writing him off as a SP yet, but I'm not sure if he has the stuff to be a starter. I think he can be a pretty good power righty out of the pen though. I think the other three are SPs with various degrees of upside. I don't believe DeSclafani will be much better than he is now, but there is value in a guy who can give you a 4.00ish ERA every fifth day 200 innings a year (assuming he can give you the innings). I agree that Iglesias has #2 upside. Stephenson has the highest ceiling of any of the four, but possibly the lowest floor as well. You challenge what I say in one post then make my argument in this one. Do you have Harvey Dent's coin in your pocket? You're starting to see the light. There may be hope for you yet.
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Post by walstib on Jul 29, 2015 11:59:42 GMT -5
I don't blather. It's against my religion. I'm letting these pitchers back up what I'm saying. Give it time. Doesn't your religion compel you to believe in things? It seems like belief is a big part of religion. Seems like you might consider believing in prospects... Religion is not believing in "things."
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Post by vtreds22 on Jul 29, 2015 21:55:59 GMT -5
DeSclafani regressed his way to seven shutout innings against the Cardinals tonight. Have we put him in the bullpen yet?
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Post by redskoolaiddrinker on Jul 29, 2015 22:05:42 GMT -5
This is the thread that keeps on giving.
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Post by grizzlylcs on Jul 30, 2015 10:24:32 GMT -5
Desclafani has a 1.43 ERA against the NL central.
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Post by walstib on Aug 3, 2015 18:36:40 GMT -5
Desclafani has a 1.43 ERA against the NL central. That's great....and a 5.43 ERA against all other teams. Perhaps he should just pitch against NL Central teams. Time will tell.
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Post by redsfanman on Aug 4, 2015 8:12:04 GMT -5
...I believe all will ultimately be bullpen arms. The Reds have NO starter prospects. Original post of the thread. I'm wondering, is this still true?
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Post by redskoolaiddrinker on Aug 4, 2015 21:11:40 GMT -5
...I believe all will ultimately be bullpen arms. The Reds have NO starter prospects. Original post of the thread. I'm wondering, is this still true? And you posted this before Disco's start tonight!
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