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Post by sabo3b17 on Nov 23, 2014 19:07:27 GMT -5
Wasn't this all brought up a few years ago when everyone wanted to move Votto to Left and have Alonso play first? To me this is the exact same discussion, as before just different players. The problem is we just need to aquire a player who can play LF and is better then Heisey or Ludwick instead of moving players around.
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Post by psuhistory on Nov 23, 2014 19:24:07 GMT -5
I don't see why finding a left fielder has to be so complicated...
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Post by Lark11 on Nov 23, 2014 19:37:22 GMT -5
Donaldson. Headley. Pablo. Cecchini. Hell, put Brad Miller over there. You're missing the point, these guys don't have to be better than Frazier offensively, they only have to be better offensively than our 2014 LF contingent of Ludwick/Heisey/et al. They wouldn't be replacing Frazier, he'd still be here. Pablo and Headley are out of our price range. Donaldson isn't even a free agent. Cecchini is a minor leaguer who has done nothing to suggest he'll be better than Frazier in 2015. Brad Miller? Please. Why are you so hellbent on acquiring an infielder and moving Frazier? It would be much easier to just acquire an OF. You have a lot more options and you don't have to move a GG caliber defender to one of the easiest positions to play defensively. Acquire a damn OF to replace Ludwick. Leave Frazier alone. There's no sense in moving a GG caliber player off his position when there are plenty of capable alternatives available. Our price range is whatever Bob wants it to be. Once upon a time, Votto, Phillips, and Homer were also out of our price range. We don't lack the resources, we lack the will. We lack the intent. But, whatever, who do you like in left?
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Post by sabo3b17 on Nov 23, 2014 19:45:31 GMT -5
lol i would still love to get ahold of Corey Dickerson from the rockies. I am sure we can come up with a package to acquire him. or just pony up the damn money and sign Melky to a 4 year deal. 4 years 50 million should do it. Trade Bruce, Leake in some deal to acquire something better either in RF, SS or RP. If everyone is hell bent on counting on Winkler then move him to RF this year and have him get time in there so he can come up mid year or in 16.
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Post by jbuck on Nov 23, 2014 19:49:31 GMT -5
I'm sick of watching cozart suck with the bat, but at this point we need a LFer and a couple bully arms. Bruce was worthless last year. He can only go up, I guess. If a ss drops in our lap, ok. I'd hate to lose leake. Rather see latos go. carry on, I feel I'm stating the obvious
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Post by Dante on Nov 23, 2014 20:14:34 GMT -5
I agree on this. Part of me thinks we should deal two starting pitchers regardless of whether we employ the win-now philosophy or the play-for-the-future philosophy. It's well documented who I want for shortstop. But, players of that type of service time could work well under either team building strategy. For example, if the BoSox sign Pablo Sandoval, then maybe Garin Cecchini is available. He'd be an interesting bat to add to the lineup, especially in the OBP department. Those types of young players would allow us to potentially compete this year and beyond, while also freeing up some payroll space over the next few years, which has real value because we have so many locked-in salaries. Yeah. But despite your long winds, you've been proven to be an absolute ridicoulsy moronic judge of baseball talent. With nearly ever single post. You may post a lot. But damn, you are a bad baseball mind. At leat own up
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Post by sabo3b17 on Nov 23, 2014 20:18:05 GMT -5
I agree on this. Part of me thinks we should deal two starting pitchers regardless of whether we employ the win-now philosophy or the play-for-the-future philosophy. It's well documented who I want for shortstop. But, players of that type of service time could work well under either team building strategy. For example, if the BoSox sign Pablo Sandoval, then maybe Garin Cecchini is available. He'd be an interesting bat to add to the lineup, especially in the OBP department. Those types of young players would allow us to potentially compete this year and beyond, while also freeing up some payroll space over the next few years, which has real value because we have so many locked-in salaries. Yeah. But despite your long winds, you've been proven to be an absolute ridicoulsy moronic judge of baseball talent. With nearly ever single post. You may post a lot. But damn, you are a bad baseball mind. At leat own up WTF?
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Post by Lark11 on Nov 23, 2014 20:29:52 GMT -5
I agree on this. Part of me thinks we should deal two starting pitchers regardless of whether we employ the win-now philosophy or the play-for-the-future philosophy. It's well documented who I want for shortstop. But, players of that type of service time could work well under either team building strategy. For example, if the BoSox sign Pablo Sandoval, then maybe Garin Cecchini is available. He'd be an interesting bat to add to the lineup, especially in the OBP department. Those types of young players would allow us to potentially compete this year and beyond, while also freeing up some payroll space over the next few years, which has real value because we have so many locked-in salaries. Yeah. But despite your long winds, you've been proven to be an absolute ridicoulsy moronic judge of baseball talent. With nearly ever single post. You may post a lot. But damn, you are a bad baseball mind. At leat own up You are absolutely right. I'm full of it. So, now that you're here, how would you suggest the Reds proceed this offseason?
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Post by psuhistory on Nov 23, 2014 20:49:43 GMT -5
You are absolutely right. I'm full of it. So, now that you're here, how would you suggest the Reds proceed this offseason? This is why you make the big bucks, Lark... I see the argument about Frazier if we had an internal candidate pushing him off 3b, but if we're trading anyway, why not just deal for what we need? Even when we had a genuine logjam at 1b, we were better off dealing Alonso for what we needed than shifting positions...
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Post by vtreds22 on Nov 23, 2014 21:06:26 GMT -5
Pablo and Headley are out of our price range. Donaldson isn't even a free agent. Cecchini is a minor leaguer who has done nothing to suggest he'll be better than Frazier in 2015. Brad Miller? Please. Why are you so hellbent on acquiring an infielder and moving Frazier? It would be much easier to just acquire an OF. You have a lot more options and you don't have to move a GG caliber defender to one of the easiest positions to play defensively. Acquire a damn OF to replace Ludwick. Leave Frazier alone. There's no sense in moving a GG caliber player off his position when there are plenty of capable alternatives available. Our price range is whatever Bob wants it to be. Once upon a time, Votto, Phillips, and Homer were also out of our price range. We don't lack the resources, we lack the will. We lack the intent. But, whatever, who do you like in left? Of course it's whatever Bob wants it to be, but is there anything to suggests that Pablo or Headley would be a realistic option? When is the last time we signed a well-known free agent to a contract for meaningful cash, who wasn't already on the team? Eric Milton? I'm not being a smartass. I honestly can't think of anyone. Good question though. I honestly haven't given it a lot of thought. I liked your idea for Michael Saunders, though I think he would be harder to acquire than you do. I don't like much of anything on the free agent market. I could go for somebody like Colby Rasmus or Michael Morse on a 1-2 year deal. I don't want to see anyone brought in on anything more than a two year deal, as I think Winker should be able to take over in LF by 2016. I really like Nick Markakis but it seems like he's going to re-sign with Baltimore. I think a potential Latos/Cespedes swap is very interesting, though I think it would take more than Latos to acquire him. How about a Dodger OF? They have plenty to go around. Could we talk them into giving us Kemp and eating a significant chunk of cash? I really like Joc Pederson, but he'd probably cost an arm and a leg in prospects. Edit: Francisco Cordero. Forgot about him.
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Post by Lark11 on Nov 23, 2014 21:13:08 GMT -5
You are absolutely right. I'm full of it. So, now that you're here, how would you suggest the Reds proceed this offseason? This is why you make the big bucks, Lark... I see the argument about Frazier if we had an internal candidate pushing him off 3b, but if we're trading anyway, why not just deal for what we need? Even when we had a genuine logjam at 1b, we were better off dealing Alonso for what we needed than shifting positions... Yeah, it's all fortune and glory over here. Fortune and glory. The notion of being open to shifting Frazier to left was really based on the early idea of trading for Josh Donaldson. Unfortunately, it's not sounding like the A's are going to move him. So, in most scenarios, it probably does make more sense to reel in a left fielder. There aren't many 3bs that would be that interesting or make me want to shift Frazier (though Cecchini IS intriguing). At the same time, I haven't really seen a brilliant idea for acquiring a left fielder. And, when you look at what a team like Oakland accomplished last year by being willing to move players around (hell, it seemed like they fielded an entire team of catchers at one point) and be more fluid in their defensive positioning, it makes sense to not foreclose the idea of shifting Frazier to left. At this point, I'm not sure how I would address the leftfield problem, though the idea of Gattis' power intrigues the hell out of me. The only thing I'm sure of is how I would address the shortstop problem. So far, my thinking has stalled/settled on the idea of getting Brad Miller for short, Michael Saunders for left, and Brandon Maurer for the rotation/bullpen from the Mariners and Sean Rodriguez from the Rays for a super utility/platoon role. I'd be somewhat content with that type of effort, though adding a bit talent would probably be necessary.
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Post by Lark11 on Nov 23, 2014 21:20:21 GMT -5
Our price range is whatever Bob wants it to be. Once upon a time, Votto, Phillips, and Homer were also out of our price range. We don't lack the resources, we lack the will. We lack the intent. But, whatever, who do you like in left? Of course it's whatever Bob wants it to be, but is there anything to suggests that Pablo or Headley would be a realistic option? When is the last time we signed a well-known free agent to a contract for meaningful cash, who wasn't already on the team? Eric Milton? I'm not being a smartass. I honestly can't think of anyone. Good question though. I honestly haven't given it a lot of thought. I liked your idea for Michael Saunders, though I think he would be harder to acquire than you do. I don't like much of anything on the free agent market. I could go for somebody like Colby Rasmus or Michael Morse on a 1-2 year deal. I don't want to see anyone brought in on anything more than a two year deal, as I think Winker should be able to take over in LF by 2016. I really like Nick Markakis but it seems like he's going to re-sign with Baltimore. I think a potential Latos/Cespedes swap is very interesting, though I think it would take more than Latos to acquire him. How about a Dodger OF? They have plenty to go around. Could we talk them into giving us Kemp and eating a significant chunk of cash? I really like Joc Pederson, but he'd probably cost an arm and a leg in prospects. Edit: Francisco Cordero. Forgot about him. Yeah, Coco would be one, Aroldis might also fit the bill, depending on how you define "free agent". I still kinda like Colby Rasmus. I remember being blown away by an AB he took against one of the Giants stud pitchers way back in his rookie or second season with the Cards. It was like a 12-pitch AB and he just kept grinding and making all the right swing/no-swing decisions. I don't know what happened to him since, but maybe he still has a bit of that approach buried in his game that we could bring out.
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Post by kinsm on Nov 24, 2014 0:11:15 GMT -5
Rasmus = Ludwick
PASS
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Post by walstib on Nov 24, 2014 12:35:08 GMT -5
This team doesn't need power hitters. It needs hitters with high OBP in it's lineup. Cecchini's OBP is .396 in over 1600 plate appearances in the minors and was .361 with the Sox this past season when he came up for a cup-of-coffee.
As for this ongoing argument about moving Frazier to LF, fine put Cecchini there. He's played LF on the minors to provide another opportunity to get his bat into the lineup when he gets to Boston. He can also back up 3b and 1b.
Also, Devin Marrero, 2012 1st Round SS from AZ State is a good glove with dependable bat. He had a great offseason in the AFL. He could start out of ST enabling a trade of Cozart to the Dodgers for a pitcher, say Chris Reed. Marrero was a 17th round choice of the Reds out of high school, but he didn't sign.
"Marrero’s calling card is his defense, where he combines standout range to both sides (the result of positioning and instincts as opposed to speed) with tremendously consistent hands and a strong throwing arm to create a potential Gold Glove defensive package. Offensively, most view him as a future bottom-of-the-order hitter but with a respectable floor given his ability to keep the barrel in the zone and line the ball from gap to gap with the occasional ability to turn on a pitch and drive it. He has required adjustment time in his transitions between levels, but he’s also shown the aptitude to adjust"
Throw in a pitcher say Brian Johnson, probably the Sox most advanced pitching prospect, and Mat Latos from the Reds and you have a deal.
Now let the chest beating begin!
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Post by Lark11 on Nov 24, 2014 13:45:21 GMT -5
This team doesn't need power hitters. It needs hitters with high OBP in it's lineup. Cecchini's OBP is .396 in over 1600 plate appearances in the minors and was .361 with the Sox this past season when he came up for a cup-of-coffee. As for this ongoing argument about moving Frazier to LF, fine put Cecchini there. He's played LF on the minors to provide another opportunity to get his bat into the lineup when he gets to Boston. He can also back up 3b and 1b. Also, Devin Marrero, 2012 1st Round SS from AZ State is a good glove with dependable bat. He had a great offseason in the AFL. He could start out of ST enabling a trade of Cozart to the Dodgers for a pitcher, say Chris Reed. Marrero was a 17th round choice of the Reds out of high school, but he didn't sign. "Marrero’s calling card is his defense, where he combines standout range to both sides (the result of positioning and instincts as opposed to speed) with tremendously consistent hands and a strong throwing arm to create a potential Gold Glove defensive package. Offensively, most view him as a future bottom-of-the-order hitter but with a respectable floor given his ability to keep the barrel in the zone and line the ball from gap to gap with the occasional ability to turn on a pitch and drive it. He has required adjustment time in his transitions between levels, but he’s also shown the aptitude to adjust" Throw in a pitcher say Brian Johnson, probably the Sox most advanced pitching prospect, and Mat Latos from the Reds and you have a deal. Now let the chest beating begin! Yep, somehow it still feels like OBP is undervalued. It's not everything in hitting, but it's close and there still aren't many hitters who do it well. The Reds problem over the last few years is not having enough tough outs. And, OBP is nothing more than the ability to avoid outs. Even if Cecchini never develops more than 10 homer power, he could still be a modern day Billy Mueller. I'd do cartwheels for a third baseman with that profile, especially one who is cost controlled for 6 seasons.
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