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Post by walstib on Nov 23, 2014 13:52:46 GMT -5
...does not mean there is a fire sale, that the FO is giving up on 2015! Why do people think that way? The essential definition of a fire sale is if all the players received in the deal cannot help the big club this year.
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Post by walstib on Nov 23, 2014 13:55:16 GMT -5
I can understand Bob Castellini wanting to win now. However, he should realize that this club needs an infusion of talent in all the right places to fill the holes. The present core set of players have not shown the ability to get it done. That means at the least, advancing beyond the 1st round of the playoffs, when they do make the playoffs.
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Post by Lark11 on Nov 23, 2014 14:05:29 GMT -5
I agree on this. Part of me thinks we should deal two starting pitchers regardless of whether we employ the win-now philosophy or the play-for-the-future philosophy.
It's well documented who I want for shortstop. But, players of that type of service time could work well under either team building strategy. For example, if the BoSox sign Pablo Sandoval, then maybe Garin Cecchini is available. He'd be an interesting bat to add to the lineup, especially in the OBP department. Those types of young players would allow us to potentially compete this year and beyond, while also freeing up some payroll space over the next few years, which has real value because we have so many locked-in salaries.
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Post by walstib on Nov 23, 2014 14:43:54 GMT -5
I agree on this. Part of me thinks we should deal two starting pitchers regardless of whether we employ the win-now philosophy or the play-for-the-future philosophy. It's well documented who I want for shortstop. But, players of that type of service time could work well under either team building strategy. For example, if the BoSox sign Pablo Sandoval, then maybe Garin Cecchini is available. He'd be an interesting bat to add to the lineup, especially in the OBP department. Those types of young players would allow us to potential compete this year and beyond, while also freeing up some payroll space over the next few years, which has real value because we have so many locked-in salaries. Exactly. The Reds and Red Sox match up so well in terms of a potential deal involving numerous players. Its appalling that WJ doesn't get something done involving the Sox. |
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Post by Lark11 on Nov 23, 2014 15:31:28 GMT -5
I agree on this. Part of me thinks we should deal two starting pitchers regardless of whether we employ the win-now philosophy or the play-for-the-future philosophy. It's well documented who I want for shortstop. But, players of that type of service time could work well under either team building strategy. For example, if the BoSox sign Pablo Sandoval, then maybe Garin Cecchini is available. He'd be an interesting bat to add to the lineup, especially in the OBP department. Those types of young players would allow us to potential compete this year and beyond, while also freeing up some payroll space over the next few years, which has real value because we have so many locked-in salaries. Exactly. The Reds and Red Sox match up so well in terms of a potential deal involving numerous players. Its appalling that WJ doesn't get something done involving the Sox. Yeah, we need to upgrade two positions this year. Gimme a young shortstop and Garin Cecchini, shift Frazier to left and I'd be all good. If things click, we compete this year. If not, then we are still well positioned for the future because the left side of the infield is young and cost controlled. |
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Post by crashdavissports on Nov 23, 2014 17:07:19 GMT -5
Why in the hell do people keep wanting to shift Frazier from a position where he could win a gold glove, is most comfortable and had the best year of his young career to this point?
Frazier is not goign to be moved from 3rd by management, I just can't see it happening and weaken two spots defensively.
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Post by vtreds22 on Nov 23, 2014 17:23:11 GMT -5
Why in the hell do people keep wanting to shift Frazier from a position where he could win a gold glove, is most comfortable and had the best year of his young career to this point? Frazier is not goign to be moved from 3rd by management, I just can't see it happening and weaken two spots defensively. Agreed. Frazier isn't going to LF, nor should he. He was jerked around enough in the minors. He's settled in as a very, very good defensive 3B. The Reds need to acquire a LF to play LF, not a 3B and shift Frazier. |
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Post by Lark11 on Nov 23, 2014 17:32:25 GMT -5
Why in the hell do people keep wanting to shift Frazier from a position where he could win a gold glove, is most comfortable and had the best year of his young career to this point? Frazier is not goign to be moved from 3rd by management, I just can't see it happening and weaken two spots defensively. I don't know if you guys noticed, but offense is scarce these days and having versatility is one way to increase the number of available solutions. The only OF available in free agency that has any real power is Nelson Cruz. If we can find an offensive upgrade at third, then I have no problem shifting Frazier. Nor should the Reds. |
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Post by vtreds22 on Nov 23, 2014 17:55:06 GMT -5
Why in the hell do people keep wanting to shift Frazier from a position where he could win a gold glove, is most comfortable and had the best year of his young career to this point? Frazier is not goign to be moved from 3rd by management, I just can't see it happening and weaken two spots defensively. I don't know if you guys noticed, but offense is scarce these days and having versatility is one way to increase the number of available solutions. The only OF available in free agency that has any real power is Nelson Cruz. If we can find an offensive upgrade at third, then I have no problem shifting Frazier. Nor should the Reds. Whoever the Reds acquire for LF just needs to keep the spot warm for Winker, who should be ready to takeover by 2015. Sign Colby Rasmus to a 1-2 year deal. Give him something like $8-10 million for one year, where he looks to re-establish his value and get a nice contract next year. I loathe the idea of moving a gold-glove caliber 3B to LF. |
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Post by Lark11 on Nov 23, 2014 18:07:41 GMT -5
I don't know if you guys noticed, but offense is scarce these days and having versatility is one way to increase the number of available solutions. The only OF available in free agency that has any real power is Nelson Cruz. If we can find an offensive upgrade at third, then I have no problem shifting Frazier. Nor should the Reds. Whoever the Reds acquire for LF just needs to keep the spot warm for Winker, who should be ready to takeover by 2015. Sign Colby Rasmus to a 1-2 year deal. Give him something like $8-10 million for one year, where he looks to re-establish his value and get a nice contract next year. I loathe the idea of moving a gold-glove caliber 3B to LF. I loathe the thought of watching a putrid offense for another season even more. |
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Post by vtreds22 on Nov 23, 2014 18:20:07 GMT -5
Whoever the Reds acquire for LF just needs to keep the spot warm for Winker, who should be ready to takeover by 2015. Sign Colby Rasmus to a 1-2 year deal. Give him something like $8-10 million for one year, where he looks to re-establish his value and get a nice contract next year. I loathe the idea of moving a gold-glove caliber 3B to LF. I loathe the thought of watching a putrid offense for another season even more. So do I. We don't have to downgrade the defense just to improve the offense, however. |
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Post by Lark11 on Nov 23, 2014 18:29:54 GMT -5
I loathe the thought of watching a putrid offense for another season even more. So do I. We don't have to downgrade the defense just to improve the offense, however. Don't we? Are we going to find a shortstop who is both an offensive upgrade AND Cozart's equal on defense? In addition, there are a number of third basemen we could (arguably) bring in that are Frazier's equal or better on defense. I'm just surprised that so many people are comfortable putting restraints/conditions on how we can improve. Are we REALLY in a position to be choosy? "I want improvement, but only in certain ways!" |
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Post by vtreds22 on Nov 23, 2014 18:34:52 GMT -5
So do I. We don't have to downgrade the defense just to improve the offense, however. Don't we? Are we going to find a shortstop who is both an offensive upgrade AND Cozart's equal on defense? In addition, there are a number of third basemen we could (arguably) bring in that are Frazier's equal or better on defense. I'm just surprised that so many people are comfortable putting restraints/conditions on how we can improve. Are we REALLY in a position to be choosy? "I want improvement, but only in certain ways!" I thought we were talking about LF. Didn't know we were talking about SS... I'm just curious, exactly who do you think we can bring in that are >= Frazier offensively and defensively? Cecchini has all of 38 plate appearances in the majors. You honestly think he can step in as a rookie and give you what Frazier does? Dude had a .712 OPS in AAA last season, FFS. |
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Post by Lark11 on Nov 23, 2014 18:45:52 GMT -5
Don't we? Are we going to find a shortstop who is both an offensive upgrade AND Cozart's equal on defense? In addition, there are a number of third basemen we could (arguably) bring in that are Frazier's equal or better on defense. I'm just surprised that so many people are comfortable putting restraints/conditions on how we can improve. Are we REALLY in a position to be choosy? "I want improvement, but only in certain ways!" I thought we were talking about LF. Didn't know we were talking about SS... I'm just curious, exactly who do you think we can bring in that are >= Frazier offensively and defensively? Cecchini has all of 38 plate appearances in the majors. You honestly think he can step in as a rookie and give you what Frazier does? Dude had a .712 OPS in AAA last season, FFS. Donaldson. Headley. Pablo. Cecchini. Hell, put Brad Miller over there. You're missing the point, these guys don't have to be better than Frazier offensively, they only have to be better offensively than our 2014 LF contingent of Ludwick/Heisey/et al. They wouldn't be replacing Frazier, he'd still be here. |
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Post by vtreds22 on Nov 23, 2014 18:55:30 GMT -5
I thought we were talking about LF. Didn't know we were talking about SS... I'm just curious, exactly who do you think we can bring in that are >= Frazier offensively and defensively? Cecchini has all of 38 plate appearances in the majors. You honestly think he can step in as a rookie and give you what Frazier does? Dude had a .712 OPS in AAA last season, FFS. Donaldson. Headley. Pablo. Cecchini. Hell, put Brad Miller over there. You're missing the point, these guys don't have to be better than Frazier offensively, they only have to be better offensively than our 2014 LF contingent of Ludwick/Heisey/et al. They wouldn't be replacing Frazier, he'd still be here. Pablo and Headley are out of our price range. Donaldson isn't even a free agent. Cecchini is a minor leaguer who has done nothing to suggest he'll be better than Frazier in 2015. Brad Miller? Please. Why are you so hellbent on acquiring an infielder and moving Frazier? It would be much easier to just acquire an OF. You have a lot more options and you don't have to move a GG caliber defender to one of the easiest positions to play defensively. Acquire a damn OF to replace Ludwick. Leave Frazier alone. There's no sense in moving a GG caliber player off his position when there are plenty of capable alternatives available. |
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