Post by dukecrunchybagel on Oct 27, 2011 13:42:18 GMT -5
Here's your chance to influence my first alternate history thread. I picked five potential divergences that most fascinate me. Which should I do first?
1) In 1959, future Reds GM Bob Howsam was very involved with upsetting the apple cart in an attempt to get major league sports out to Denver. His family owned the AAA Denver Bears, and Howsam was convinced that big money could be made in the Mile High City. Howsam, along with his father and brother, founded the Denver Broncos, one of the charter members of the AFL. He also was one of the original eight teams of the proposed Continental League, a Third League.
Reacting to the threat of the Continental League, MLB did something unprecedented at the time, and expanded from its original sixteen teams to twenty, adding the Los Angeles Angels and Washington Senators (todays Rangers) for the 1961 season and the Houston Colt 45s and New York Mets for the 1962 season. The Mets were the fatal blow to the Continental League, as the franchise was awarded to its main backer, William Shea. Denver would have to wait until 1977 to get a MLB team. Meanwhile, Howsam came to the notice of Branch Rickey which eventually led him to become GM of the Cardinals in 1964 and then the Reds in 1967.
What if Howsam had a little more foresight and put all his efforts into the Broncos instead of the Continental League? Howsam’s heart was really in baseball more than football – he was the minor league executive of the year twice (1951 and 1956). Let’s say he comes to the attention of Gabe Paul instead of Branch Rickey…
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bob_Howsam
2) The Big Red Machine was born in the 1970 season, when the team went 102-60 to win the NL West crown, sweeping the Pirates in the NLCS before losing 3-1 to the Baltimore Orioles. One of the biggest contributors to team was centerfielder Bobby Tolan. Batting in the two-hole between Rose and Perez, Tolan batted .316 with 16 dingers, scoring 112 runs, stealing 57 bases and posting a .368 OBP. In fact, the 57 steals led the NL (the only person between 1966 and 1974 not named Lou Brock to accomplish the feat).
That offseason many of the Reds play in charity basketball games organized by Professionals, Inc., including Johnny Bench and Pete Rose. These games are specifically in violation of their contracts. During a game in Frankfort on a fast break, Tolan ruptures his Achilles tendon. As a result, Tolan undergoes surgery which leaves him on the bench for the entire 1971 season. The season is a tremendous disappointment for the Reds, who fall to 79-82 and fourth place, their only sub-.500 year in the seventies.
What if the Reds legal office put their foot down and stopped the charity games? Obviously, Tolan would have been healthy in 1971 and might not have developed the bad attitude he got being somewhat unfairly singled out for the event, leading to his 1973 trade to the Padres for Clay Kirby (which was exacerbated by his poor 1973 season). So what does a healthy Bobby Tolan mean for the Reds?
news.google.com/newspapers?nid=1755&dat=19710108&id=wK4qAAAAIBAJ&sjid=RWYEAAAAIBAJ&pg=3118,2349938
3) In 1891, the American Association folded, and the National League was the only game in town. Not surprisingly perhaps, this led to certain abuses, the worst of which occurred in 1899. Frank & Stanley Robinson, owners of the fairly successful Cleveland Spiders bought the Saint Louis Browns. They didn’t sell the Spiders, instead they transferred all the good Spider players to the Browns, now renamed the Perfectos. This was a disaster not only for the Spiders, who finished an appalling 20-134, but for the entire league, as attendance plummeted and at the end of the year the Spiders, Baltimore Orioles, Louisville Colonels, and Washington Senators were all disbanded; (the Orioles also had some of their better players transferred to the Brooklyn Superbas by their joint owners). This of course opened the way for the upstart American League (who would place teams in all but Louisville).
On June 5, the other owners did protest to enough of an extent that Lave Cross and Willie Sudhoff had been forced back to the Spiders. Let’s say that this protest was much forceful and extensive and that as a result the Commissioner’s office comes being in 1900 and not in 1920 as a result of the Black Sox Scandal. Not only might this change how (and whether) the AL developed, but it would be of particular interest to the Reds and their owner, John Brush, who also having an interest in the Giants, made a “trade” in 1901…
www.wcnet.org/~dlfleitz/cleve.htm
4) Owner Charlie Finley built arguably one of the most successful and controversial franchises in baseball – the Oakland Athletics, usually referred to in Charlie O’s days as the A’s. They had facial hair, a mule named “Charlie O” as a mascot, colorful (to say the least) uniforms, and an even more colorful clubhouse. In 1975, building on the case brought by Andy Messersmith and Dave McNally, Catfish Hunter became a free agent. After being swept by the Red Sox, the A’s see the writing on the wall as most of their stars (Jackson, Bando, Fingers, Holtzman, Tenace, Rudi, and Campaneris) will be free agents after the 1976 season. Jackson & Holtzman are traded to the Orioles for Don Baylor,Mike Torrez, & Paul Mitchell (Baylor was also a free agents to be). When the A’s can manage only .500 ball through early May, Finley gives up and tries to sell Joe Rudi & Rollie Fingers to the Red Sox and Vida Blue to the Yankees (for about $3.5M). When approached by the Brewers, he rejects an offer of prospects and instead demands cash for Sal Bando. Bowie Kuhn, quite controversially, invokes the “Not in the Best Interest of Baseball” clause and cancels the deal.
Sure enough, the A’s are decimated by free agency, and the 1977 edition finishes dead last in AL West (bested even by the expansion Seattle Mariners). Finley still has one real asset on his time, Vida Blue, the CYA and MVP in 1971 and fairly continual All Star. The Reds and Red Sox are both teams interested in Blue, and Finley still largely wants cash for his prize possession. The Reds end up on top with a $1.75M offer, plus first baseman Dave Revering (stuck behind Dan Dreissen), to give it the appearance of a trade and not a sale. This would have given the Reds a one-two punch of Seaver and Blue, but Bowie Kuhn had other plans and blocked the deal. A week after the veto, Blue was dealt to the Giants for six prospects, a utility infielder, and $300K. None of the prospects amounted to much, while Blue had three excellent (and one not-so-good) season for the Giants. What if the Reds made an offer more like the one the A’s got for Blue?
redlegnation.com/2010/12/09/this-day-in-reds-history-robby-is-an-old-30-and-vida-blue-becomes-a-red/
4a) Actually, 1978 was not the first season Vida Blue could have been a Red. The Reds had serious discussions during the 1977 season about the possibility for a Tony Perez (along with Bill Plummer & Mike Lum) for Vida Blue deal. They couldn’t reach an agreement and instead Howsam dealt Perez and Will McEnany for southpaw Woodie Fryman and reliever Dale Murray, in one of the worst deals in Howsam’s magnificent tenure. What if the Reds had made slightly different offer to the A’s?
news.google.com/newspapers?nid=2457&dat=19761209&id=cxo0AAAAIBAJ&sjid=ASMIAAAAIBAJ&pg=1769,3744082
5) Just before the trading deadline, Jim Bowden made a deal he thought he’d never have to make. With the Reds sporting a meager 48-48 record and free agency approaching, he dealt Barry Larkin to the Mets in exchange for a package rumored to include uberprospect Alex Escobar and a couple of pitchers. Bowden had just dealt starter Denny Neagle to the Yankees a few days before. Larkin had five-and-ten rights and wanted a contract extension, but Steve Phillips only needed a shortstop to replace the injured Rey Ordonez, who was still under contract for another three years and wouldn’t budge. Larkin appears to have made the right call and five days later, Carl Lindner agrees to give Larkin a $28M three-year extension. The Reds go on a tear and end up in second place. Bowden breaks up the team during the offseason.
What if Larkin decides to go to Shea to get a second ring?
espn.go.com/gammons/s/0722.html
NOTE: I'll combine both of the Vida Blue scenarios for vote gathering purposes and choose the year that gets the most votes (so if The Scandal of 1899 gets five votes, Vida Red 1978 four, and Vida Red 1977 two - the winner is Vida Red 1978).
The poll will close Thursday evening, and I hope to have the first post out that weekend.
1) In 1959, future Reds GM Bob Howsam was very involved with upsetting the apple cart in an attempt to get major league sports out to Denver. His family owned the AAA Denver Bears, and Howsam was convinced that big money could be made in the Mile High City. Howsam, along with his father and brother, founded the Denver Broncos, one of the charter members of the AFL. He also was one of the original eight teams of the proposed Continental League, a Third League.
Reacting to the threat of the Continental League, MLB did something unprecedented at the time, and expanded from its original sixteen teams to twenty, adding the Los Angeles Angels and Washington Senators (todays Rangers) for the 1961 season and the Houston Colt 45s and New York Mets for the 1962 season. The Mets were the fatal blow to the Continental League, as the franchise was awarded to its main backer, William Shea. Denver would have to wait until 1977 to get a MLB team. Meanwhile, Howsam came to the notice of Branch Rickey which eventually led him to become GM of the Cardinals in 1964 and then the Reds in 1967.
What if Howsam had a little more foresight and put all his efforts into the Broncos instead of the Continental League? Howsam’s heart was really in baseball more than football – he was the minor league executive of the year twice (1951 and 1956). Let’s say he comes to the attention of Gabe Paul instead of Branch Rickey…
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bob_Howsam
2) The Big Red Machine was born in the 1970 season, when the team went 102-60 to win the NL West crown, sweeping the Pirates in the NLCS before losing 3-1 to the Baltimore Orioles. One of the biggest contributors to team was centerfielder Bobby Tolan. Batting in the two-hole between Rose and Perez, Tolan batted .316 with 16 dingers, scoring 112 runs, stealing 57 bases and posting a .368 OBP. In fact, the 57 steals led the NL (the only person between 1966 and 1974 not named Lou Brock to accomplish the feat).
That offseason many of the Reds play in charity basketball games organized by Professionals, Inc., including Johnny Bench and Pete Rose. These games are specifically in violation of their contracts. During a game in Frankfort on a fast break, Tolan ruptures his Achilles tendon. As a result, Tolan undergoes surgery which leaves him on the bench for the entire 1971 season. The season is a tremendous disappointment for the Reds, who fall to 79-82 and fourth place, their only sub-.500 year in the seventies.
What if the Reds legal office put their foot down and stopped the charity games? Obviously, Tolan would have been healthy in 1971 and might not have developed the bad attitude he got being somewhat unfairly singled out for the event, leading to his 1973 trade to the Padres for Clay Kirby (which was exacerbated by his poor 1973 season). So what does a healthy Bobby Tolan mean for the Reds?
news.google.com/newspapers?nid=1755&dat=19710108&id=wK4qAAAAIBAJ&sjid=RWYEAAAAIBAJ&pg=3118,2349938
3) In 1891, the American Association folded, and the National League was the only game in town. Not surprisingly perhaps, this led to certain abuses, the worst of which occurred in 1899. Frank & Stanley Robinson, owners of the fairly successful Cleveland Spiders bought the Saint Louis Browns. They didn’t sell the Spiders, instead they transferred all the good Spider players to the Browns, now renamed the Perfectos. This was a disaster not only for the Spiders, who finished an appalling 20-134, but for the entire league, as attendance plummeted and at the end of the year the Spiders, Baltimore Orioles, Louisville Colonels, and Washington Senators were all disbanded; (the Orioles also had some of their better players transferred to the Brooklyn Superbas by their joint owners). This of course opened the way for the upstart American League (who would place teams in all but Louisville).
On June 5, the other owners did protest to enough of an extent that Lave Cross and Willie Sudhoff had been forced back to the Spiders. Let’s say that this protest was much forceful and extensive and that as a result the Commissioner’s office comes being in 1900 and not in 1920 as a result of the Black Sox Scandal. Not only might this change how (and whether) the AL developed, but it would be of particular interest to the Reds and their owner, John Brush, who also having an interest in the Giants, made a “trade” in 1901…
www.wcnet.org/~dlfleitz/cleve.htm
4) Owner Charlie Finley built arguably one of the most successful and controversial franchises in baseball – the Oakland Athletics, usually referred to in Charlie O’s days as the A’s. They had facial hair, a mule named “Charlie O” as a mascot, colorful (to say the least) uniforms, and an even more colorful clubhouse. In 1975, building on the case brought by Andy Messersmith and Dave McNally, Catfish Hunter became a free agent. After being swept by the Red Sox, the A’s see the writing on the wall as most of their stars (Jackson, Bando, Fingers, Holtzman, Tenace, Rudi, and Campaneris) will be free agents after the 1976 season. Jackson & Holtzman are traded to the Orioles for Don Baylor,Mike Torrez, & Paul Mitchell (Baylor was also a free agents to be). When the A’s can manage only .500 ball through early May, Finley gives up and tries to sell Joe Rudi & Rollie Fingers to the Red Sox and Vida Blue to the Yankees (for about $3.5M). When approached by the Brewers, he rejects an offer of prospects and instead demands cash for Sal Bando. Bowie Kuhn, quite controversially, invokes the “Not in the Best Interest of Baseball” clause and cancels the deal.
Sure enough, the A’s are decimated by free agency, and the 1977 edition finishes dead last in AL West (bested even by the expansion Seattle Mariners). Finley still has one real asset on his time, Vida Blue, the CYA and MVP in 1971 and fairly continual All Star. The Reds and Red Sox are both teams interested in Blue, and Finley still largely wants cash for his prize possession. The Reds end up on top with a $1.75M offer, plus first baseman Dave Revering (stuck behind Dan Dreissen), to give it the appearance of a trade and not a sale. This would have given the Reds a one-two punch of Seaver and Blue, but Bowie Kuhn had other plans and blocked the deal. A week after the veto, Blue was dealt to the Giants for six prospects, a utility infielder, and $300K. None of the prospects amounted to much, while Blue had three excellent (and one not-so-good) season for the Giants. What if the Reds made an offer more like the one the A’s got for Blue?
redlegnation.com/2010/12/09/this-day-in-reds-history-robby-is-an-old-30-and-vida-blue-becomes-a-red/
4a) Actually, 1978 was not the first season Vida Blue could have been a Red. The Reds had serious discussions during the 1977 season about the possibility for a Tony Perez (along with Bill Plummer & Mike Lum) for Vida Blue deal. They couldn’t reach an agreement and instead Howsam dealt Perez and Will McEnany for southpaw Woodie Fryman and reliever Dale Murray, in one of the worst deals in Howsam’s magnificent tenure. What if the Reds had made slightly different offer to the A’s?
news.google.com/newspapers?nid=2457&dat=19761209&id=cxo0AAAAIBAJ&sjid=ASMIAAAAIBAJ&pg=1769,3744082
5) Just before the trading deadline, Jim Bowden made a deal he thought he’d never have to make. With the Reds sporting a meager 48-48 record and free agency approaching, he dealt Barry Larkin to the Mets in exchange for a package rumored to include uberprospect Alex Escobar and a couple of pitchers. Bowden had just dealt starter Denny Neagle to the Yankees a few days before. Larkin had five-and-ten rights and wanted a contract extension, but Steve Phillips only needed a shortstop to replace the injured Rey Ordonez, who was still under contract for another three years and wouldn’t budge. Larkin appears to have made the right call and five days later, Carl Lindner agrees to give Larkin a $28M three-year extension. The Reds go on a tear and end up in second place. Bowden breaks up the team during the offseason.
What if Larkin decides to go to Shea to get a second ring?
espn.go.com/gammons/s/0722.html
NOTE: I'll combine both of the Vida Blue scenarios for vote gathering purposes and choose the year that gets the most votes (so if The Scandal of 1899 gets five votes, Vida Red 1978 four, and Vida Red 1977 two - the winner is Vida Red 1978).
The poll will close Thursday evening, and I hope to have the first post out that weekend.
