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Post by Lark11 on Apr 23, 2008 16:32:48 GMT -5
Let's see the general consensus!
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JHockey14
Ted Kluszewski
"Smoke in the throat and peas at the knees" Chris Welsh 5/5/08
Posts: 843
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Post by JHockey14 on Apr 23, 2008 17:05:35 GMT -5
wasn't expecting this move when I woke up this morning This organization really needs some consistency in their manager and GM. The firings so often prove the instability and incompetence of our head office and it really sets our organization back. It takes a solid plan in place to finally have a winning season but its hard to have a solid plan when there is no solidity in management. And thats why the players do not give full effort and who blames them. Their is no loyalty whom what so ever nor fair chances given out. Hire the right guy the first time and give him a fair 5 year chance for GM manager should get at least 3. just my .02 but needless to say I'm a little upset, we'll see how the team responds though
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Post by scottscudder on Apr 23, 2008 17:32:27 GMT -5
Krivsky was not my favorite choice, but the timing is bad and I would have chosen someone besides Jocketty.
Krivsky made some moves that were just so obviously stupid that I think it showed he was not the best choice. The trade, and most recently the C-Pat signing, were just plain dumb moves. Also, he failed to give Dusty right handed hitting off the bench which should have been an obvious need.
Jocketty, however, is old school. I don't think he's hungry enough to do the research and to leave "no stone unturned". His general strategy of signing expensive veterans in St. Louis shows a certain laziness, I think, rather than doing the work to find the young talent, the great deals.
Of course, Jocketty and Dusty may be a perfect pairing - two guys looking for overpriced veteran talent. But that's not the approach I want to see in Cincinnati.
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Post by GMBurchfield on Apr 23, 2008 17:34:44 GMT -5
i c good and bad
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Post by redvol on Apr 23, 2008 19:44:28 GMT -5
What has Jocketty done without Larussa and Dave Duncan? Seriously, I don't have all the facts but if my memory is correct, those 2 have been a big key tto the playoff runs Walt has been a part of.
Don't get me wrong, Jocketty made some good moves in St. Louis over the years. But Tony Larussa and Dave Duncan get more out of mediocre talent than anyone in the league. Look at their roster. They have noone after Pujols that anyone would give up a top minor leaguer for. Yet they simply win........night after night.
Unless they can turn over 50% of the roster by the All star break, what was the point in this really?
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Post by dukecrunchybagel on Apr 23, 2008 21:07:06 GMT -5
Well I'll ring in as being 100% behind this move.
Jocketty has some weaknesses, particularly when it comes to drafting, that does make me worry about how he'll do in a smaller market team. He also has a tendency to stick with talent already on the roster long past when he should.
OTOH, Jocketty seems to have a good eye for what talents are for real and which are hot gas (with the sole exception of the Mulder deal). He also usually does a good job finding quality free agents on the cheap. Finally, Jocketty did manage to put together a very good team since 2000, with the sole exception of 2007 (largely because of injuries to Carpenter and Mulder).
Krivsky was a guy who could make day-to-day moves that were generally solid. Unfortunately, as I often pointed out, he seemed entirely incapable of putting together a winning strategy.
I'm sure that much like DanO, he'll land on his feet somewhere as an evaulator of talent, which he can be strong. Wayne wasn't a good GM, not by a long shot.
As to the timing, why not now? I'm conjecturing here I admit, but it seems that Jocketty's list of drafting priorities must have been very different than Krivsky's. I'm not sure if that's good or not as Krivksy's drafting has been erratic. OTOH, I sure as heck didn't want Krivksy GMing through the midseason fire sale.
It'll be interesting to see what direction Jocketty takes the team. The man has certainly paid his dues and has the experience to take the team to the next level (which Krivksy did not).
I'd have rather seen us give Paul dePodesta a chance, but Jocketty is a very solid choice.
Then again, I thought Krivksy was a solid choice. (Unlike O'Brien which suprised the heck out of me -- I was expecting Krivsky back then.)
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Post by powerofcincy on Apr 23, 2008 21:19:34 GMT -5
Seems to me that Jocketty's track record speaks for itself to a degree. In St. Louis he constructed a winning team (luckily or not), and while I certainly have no harsh feelings towards Krivsky, I'm not sure he had what it takes to build a championship club (although, granted, he needed more time). I think Jocketty's future here is bright.
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Post by The Duke on Apr 24, 2008 5:46:21 GMT -5
The Reds are taking a beating from the national media which is saying that he did nothing to deserve getting fired. I don't see how handing out millions of dollars to the likes of Patterson, Stanton, Castro, Cormier, Coffey, etc. is nothing, btu I do think WK got a little bit of a raw deal.
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JHockey14
Ted Kluszewski
"Smoke in the throat and peas at the knees" Chris Welsh 5/5/08
Posts: 843
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Post by JHockey14 on Apr 24, 2008 10:35:46 GMT -5
It's a shame because you know the guy really cared about this team and wanted to win. I think he brought in some good pieces along the way but ultimately set the bar too high after the unexpected playoff run his first year here. I liked Krivsky but would not have minded to see him go at the end of the season but i really am just looking for a little consistency from this organization. find someone and stick with him for 5 years
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Post by awnawboi21 on Apr 24, 2008 10:53:17 GMT -5
Consider me in the "What the hell" group, but I think Kriv got an unfair shake.
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Post by The Duke on Apr 24, 2008 10:56:03 GMT -5
I won't miss WK's arrogance. Granted, Jocketty is probably jsut as arrogant, but at least he can not shove it in the fans faces. The whole, "The fans can't understand the moves we are making" thing last year rubbed a whole lot of people the wrong way, me included. It's baseball, not rocket science.
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Post by awnawboi21 on Apr 24, 2008 11:07:24 GMT -5
I won't miss WK's arrogance. Granted, Jocketty is probably jsut as arrogant, but at least he can not shove it in the fans faces. The whole, "The fans can't understand the moves we are making" thing last year rubbed a whole lot of people the wrong way, me included. It's baseball, not rocket science. I agree with that. I didn't like Wayne's attitude in general, but he provided us with the makeup of our current team at next to nothing costs. BP, Ross, VolKz (via Hamilton), and Kepp all for next to nothing. I was listening to a radio show last night and the host made a good point about Wayne being a close to the vest guy (something that has always annoyed the hell outta me.) He said if Wayne had gone around telling people his plans, there's no way we would have gotten Francisco Cordero from the Brewers. I thought that was a great point. |
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Post by The Duke on Apr 24, 2008 11:18:55 GMT -5
I was listening to a radio show last night and the host made a good point about Wayne being a close to the vest guy (something that has always annoyed the hell outta me.) He said if Wayne had gone around telling people his plans, there's no way we would have gotten Francisco Cordero from the Brewers. I thought that was a great point. That was one of the things I liked best about WK. No need to tip your hand, but you don;t have to insult the fans to keep quiet when asked, just put out some random Marvin Lewis like quote liek "We are looking into some things, and any oppotunity to improve the team we will investigate" and if they ask you anythign specific, just say "We don't disucss those type of things until we are sure of our direction", just generic crap like that. You can be close to the vest and not be a prick at the same time. |
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Post by awnawboi21 on Apr 24, 2008 11:21:21 GMT -5
100% agree. Too smug.
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