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Post by jsmith on Nov 24, 2014 13:25:01 GMT -5
Delino Deshields, who managed Winker in the AFL, declared his bat to be "big league ready right now". For whatever that's worth. Blasphemy, what does a former MLB player and Winker's manager (both in the AFL and briefly in Pensacola) know about him? His age clearly indicates that he's too young. That's all that matters. Once you reach a certain age, click, you're ready. I have heard that Delino Deshields is a very class act. He grew up in the same area as I am currently living in Maryland, and my ex went to high school with him. He is also an employee of the Reds...so I am not a bit surprised about his quote. Would you expect him to say he isn't ready and needs more time in the minors to the press? I am hoping they don't rush him, for every K.Griffey Jr./ Mike Trout there are a 1000 Sean Burroughs type careers who were rushed and done quickly.
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Post by redsfanman on Nov 24, 2014 13:47:53 GMT -5
Blasphemy, what does a former MLB player and Winker's manager (both in the AFL and briefly in Pensacola) know about him? His age clearly indicates that he's too young. That's all that matters. Once you reach a certain age, click, you're ready. I have heard that Delino Deshields is a very class act. He grew up in the same area as I am currently living in Maryland, and my ex went to high school with him. He is also an employee of the Reds...so I am not a bit surprised about his quote. Would you expect him to say he isn't ready and needs more time in the minors to the press? I am hoping they don't rush him, for every K.Griffey Jr./ Mike Trout there are a 1000 Sean Burroughs type careers who were rushed and done quickly. My opinion on Delano Deshields is that the Reds respect him (and his opinions) a lot, and Jim Riggleman's promotion out of Louisville was as much about opening that job for Deshields as it was about Riggleman. Why? To keep Deshields working with the organization's top prospects as many head to Louisville next year. My remark, that you quoted, was mocking the idea that Deshields' (and everybody else's) judgment should be overruled by Winker's age. Deshields doesn't have to say anything when asked about Winker. He could merely say he's a good player, an exciting young player, and so on. I think his suggestion that Winker is MLB ready says something. Deshields isn't saying that about everyone. Ask about Yorman Rodriguez and he'll likely rave about the raw skills. Also I've read most other credible people - writers, personnel, and so on - say similar things about Winker to what Deshields said.
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Post by vtreds22 on Nov 24, 2014 14:19:46 GMT -5
Yet another gem. You're the king of taking what someone says completely out of context, and doing it in the most condescending/douchebag way possible. I honestly hope you're not as much of an ass in real life as you are on this board. Out of context? It's a joke, contradicting Lark's intelligent and useful contribution with what the nonsense another poster contributed. It might make people recognize how ridiculous the original point - that Winker's age determines how ready he is - really is. Logic clearly isn't getting through, sometime sarcasm does. I assume Lark understood the remark, even if it went over your head. Over my head? Lol what an ass... Did you ever consider that maybe your "jokes" aren't funny? Like, at all? Your arrogant and condescending posts are the reasons why over half of this board has you blocked and/or wants you banned.
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Post by jsmith on Nov 24, 2014 14:20:04 GMT -5
Using your last response, fair enough, and I agree to a point. I know the Reds value DD's opinion. The response I quoted you on was a very different tone. I don't know your age, guessing younger, but there is always hyperbole about young prospects every year. My opinion is I would rather give them an extra year to be MLB ready then to rush them. I think Billy Hamilton would have benefitted from a full year in AAA. Having a lead off hitter with a less than .300 OBP didn't help the Reds this year. Having the highest payroll in the division, you need to decide if you are all in or rebuilding. Unless everything goes right, they are really stuck in the middle.
Like making the playoffs in the NBA or NHL every year as the eighth seed...... Means you are stuck as a franchise.
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Post by redsfanman on Nov 24, 2014 14:24:23 GMT -5
Out of context? It's a joke, contradicting Lark's intelligent and useful contribution with what the nonsense another poster contributed. It might make people recognize how ridiculous the original point - that Winker's age determines how ready he is - really is. Logic clearly isn't getting through, sometime sarcasm does. I assume Lark understood the remark, even if it went over your head. Over my head? Lol what an ass... Did you ever consider that maybe your "jokes" aren't funny? Like, at all? Your arrogant and condescending posts are the reasons why over half of this board has you blocked and/or wants you banned. Cheer up Mr Grumpypants.
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Post by jsmith on Nov 24, 2014 14:31:32 GMT -5
Over my head? Lol what an ass... Did you ever consider that maybe your "jokes" aren't funny? Like, at all? Your arrogant and condescending posts are the reasons why over half of this board has you blocked and/or wants you banned. Cheer up Mr Grumpypants. No offense, but he has a valid point. I was a very early member of this board but then it turned into ESPN all over again. You do come across very condescending... Your response to me was very fair and I got your point. On others I have read, not so much. We are all Reds fans and have different opinions. Yours isn't above any others, cause again...they are opinions.
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Post by kinsm on Nov 24, 2014 19:15:42 GMT -5
Out of context? It's a joke, contradicting Lark's intelligent and useful contribution with what the nonsense another poster contributed. It might make people recognize how ridiculous the original point - that Winker's age determines how ready he is - really is. Logic clearly isn't getting through, sometime sarcasm does. I assume Lark understood the remark, even if it went over your head. Over my head? Lol what an ass... Did you ever consider that maybe your "jokes" aren't funny? Like, at all? Your arrogant and condescending posts are the reasons why over half of this board has you blocked and/or wants you banned. What's amusing is the fact that I didn't even suggest Winker would be ready in two years, hell he may never be ready. All I said was, "he isn't ready now - no need to rush him to the bigs." The kid is hitting 90 mph fastballs, let's see if he can hit the curveballs thrown by some AAAA guys and some top prospects in AA and AAA before we throw him into the fire. History suggests that if he were ready he'd be one of the finest 21 year olds in the 150 year history of the game.
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Post by Lark11 on Nov 24, 2014 20:19:56 GMT -5
Over my head? Lol what an ass... Did you ever consider that maybe your "jokes" aren't funny? Like, at all? Your arrogant and condescending posts are the reasons why over half of this board has you blocked and/or wants you banned. What's amusing is the fact that I didn't even suggest Winker would be ready in two years, hell he may never be ready. All I said was, "he isn't ready now - no need to rush him to the bigs." The kid is hitting 90 mph fastballs, let's see if he can hit the curveballs thrown by some AAAA guys and some top prospects in AA and AAA before we throw him into the fire. History suggests that if he were ready he'd be one of the finest 21 year olds in the 150 year history of the game. I don't get the 90 mph fastball thing. There are a lot of pitchers in the lower levels who throw harder than that. Pitchers get tougher as you climb the ladder much more because of better secondary offerings and better command/control than because pitchers pick up velocity.
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Post by kinsm on Nov 24, 2014 20:30:11 GMT -5
What's amusing is the fact that I didn't even suggest Winker would be ready in two years, hell he may never be ready. All I said was, "he isn't ready now - no need to rush him to the bigs." The kid is hitting 90 mph fastballs, let's see if he can hit the curveballs thrown by some AAAA guys and some top prospects in AA and AAA before we throw him into the fire. History suggests that if he were ready he'd be one of the finest 21 year olds in the 150 year history of the game. I don't get the 90 mph fastball thing. There are a lot of pitchers in the lower levels who throw harder than that. Pitchers get tougher as you climb the ladder much more because of better secondary offerings and better command/control than because pitchers pick up velocity. Fine...~90 mph, 92 mph, 93 mph, 94 mph. What does it matter? The fact stands he hasn't shown that he can hit secondary offerings yet because so far everyone he's faced has pretty much been a 2 pitch pitcher and he hasn't had too. You just said, "they get tougher". Yes, yes they do...so let's see what he can do against them before penciling him into the lineup. Winker in the system should not stop the Reds from signing an outfielder to a 2 year deal if that is what it takes to bring them in, the goal is to win a World Series in 2015 when you have a chance not "not block" Winker in 2016.
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Post by Lark11 on Nov 24, 2014 20:41:18 GMT -5
I don't get the 90 mph fastball thing. There are a lot of pitchers in the lower levels who throw harder than that. Pitchers get tougher as you climb the ladder much more because of better secondary offerings and better command/control than because pitchers pick up velocity. Fine, 92 mph, 93 mph, 94 mph. What does it matter? The fact stands he hasn't shown that he can hit secondary offerings yet because so far everyone he's faced has pretty much been a 2 pitch pitcher and he hasn't had too. You just said, "they get tougher". Yes, yes they do...so let's see what he can do against them before penciling him into the lineup. I agree. He needs some time at double-A or above, but let's not discount what he's done to date, either. He's hitting everywhere he goes. He's hitting better than most prospects facing the same caliber of pitcher. I understand that he needs some time against more advanced pitching. I also understand that he might not need as much time against advanced pitching before he's ready to contribute. Sometimes, cutting down a prospect's accomplishments in the name of context does more harm than good. Here's an example in the form of Kole Calhoun. Kole raked everywhere he went, but he flew under the radar because (1) he's a "polished college prospect", (2) "he was older than the competition", or (3) "he played in an environment favorable to hitters". Well, guess what, he's still hitting in the big leagues. So, maybe the efforts at applying context are self-defeating. Sure, maybe without context a player appears better than he actually is, but maybe with context a hitter who actually IS that good is inaccurately made to appear more pedestrian.
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Post by kinsm on Nov 24, 2014 20:43:08 GMT -5
I'm not saying Winker sucks people.
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Post by psuhistory on Nov 30, 2014 14:25:43 GMT -5
Apparently, Hunter's only considering AL clubs at the moment...
Reds Not On OF Torii Hunter's List C. Trent Rosecrans, Enquirer, November 30 2014
Torii Hunter would seem to be a perfect fit for the Reds' left field spot — he's a free agent, coming off a .286/.319/.446 season with the Tigers, at 39 he's unlikely to be looking for a long deal and is known as one of the best clubhouse guys in the game. Unfortunately for Cincinnati, the Reds don't appear to be a fit for Hunter.
Hunter, whose son plays football at Notre Dame spoke to Los Angeles Daily News columnist Mark Whicker on Saturday after the USC-Notre Dame football game. Here's what Whicker tweeted:
Mark Whicker@MWhicker03LANG Torii Hunter was waiting for son outside ND locker room. A free agent, he's looking at BALT, TEX, SEA, maybe MINN 8:10 PM - 29 Nov 2014
Hunter has played his entire 18-season career in the American League, including the first 11 in Minnesota, one of the four teams he's considering.
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Post by kinsm on Nov 30, 2014 21:14:18 GMT -5
Apparently, Hunter's only considering AL clubs at the moment... Reds Not On OF Torii Hunter's ListC. Trent Rosecrans, Enquirer, November 30 2014 Torii Hunter would seem to be a perfect fit for the Reds' left field spot — he's a free agent, coming off a .286/.319/.446 season with the Tigers, at 39 he's unlikely to be looking for a long deal and is known as one of the best clubhouse guys in the game. Unfortunately for Cincinnati, the Reds don't appear to be a fit for Hunter. Hunter, whose son plays football at Notre Dame spoke to Los Angeles Daily News columnist Mark Whicker on Saturday after the USC-Notre Dame football game. Here's what Whicker tweeted: Mark Whicker@MWhicker03LANG Torii Hunter was waiting for son outside ND locker room. A free agent, he's looking at BALT, TEX, SEA, maybe MINN8:10 PM - 29 Nov 2014 Hunter has played his entire 18-season career in the American League, including the first 11 in Minnesota, one of the four teams he's considering. Today, Ken Rosenthal of FOX Sports (via Twitter) adds the Royals to that mix and says others are in on the veteran.
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Post by JD9ball23 on Nov 30, 2014 22:07:37 GMT -5
Out of context? It's a joke, contradicting Lark's intelligent and useful contribution with what the nonsense another poster contributed. It might make people recognize how ridiculous the original point - that Winker's age determines how ready he is - really is. Logic clearly isn't getting through, sometime sarcasm does. I assume Lark understood the remark, even if it went over your head. Over my head? Lol what an ass... Did you ever consider that maybe your "jokes" aren't funny? Like, at all? Your arrogant and condescending posts are the reasons why over half of this board has you blocked and/or wants you banned. Banned...I visit the board just to see news and updates and rarely ever post anymore. I've never been so annoyed by a poster. He didn't use to bother me that much on the ESPN board but he is unbearable here. He's a legend in his own mind. The only one who Truely understands all things Reds. The rest of us are just minions...
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Post by psuhistory on Dec 1, 2014 9:40:29 GMT -5
Apparently, Hunter's only considering AL clubs at the moment... Reds Not On OF Torii Hunter's ListC. Trent Rosecrans, Enquirer, November 30 2014 Torii Hunter would seem to be a perfect fit for the Reds' left field spot — he's a free agent, coming off a .286/.319/.446 season with the Tigers, at 39 he's unlikely to be looking for a long deal and is known as one of the best clubhouse guys in the game. Unfortunately for Cincinnati, the Reds don't appear to be a fit for Hunter. Hunter, whose son plays football at Notre Dame spoke to Los Angeles Daily News columnist Mark Whicker on Saturday after the USC-Notre Dame football game. Here's what Whicker tweeted: Mark Whicker@MWhicker03LANG Torii Hunter was waiting for son outside ND locker room. A free agent, he's looking at BALT, TEX, SEA, maybe MINN8:10 PM - 29 Nov 2014 Hunter has played his entire 18-season career in the American League, including the first 11 in Minnesota, one of the four teams he's considering. Today, Ken Rosenthal of FOX Sports (via Twitter) adds the Royals to that mix and says others are in on the veteran. He also reported a week or so ago that the Blue Jays are interested in Hunter, looking for Cabrera insurance...
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