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Post by Lark11 on Mar 22, 2008 15:10:24 GMT -5
...dealt Edwin while his value is high?
Edwin Encarnacion went 0-for-4 with three strikeouts and an error at third base Saturday versus the Astros.
Encarnacion is hitting just .191 this spring, though he does have nine RBI in his 47 at-bats. The error was just his second. Still, if his slow start carries over into the regular season, he could do some sitting in favor of Ryan Freel and Jeff Keppinger after Alex Gonzalez returns. It'd be best for the Reds if it doesn't come to that.
If he doesn't "breakout" this year, then it's not likely to ever happen. If he doesn't take a step forward in 2008, then we may look back with 20/20 hindsight and have wished that we dealt him.
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urdunn
Brandon Larson
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Post by urdunn on Mar 22, 2008 15:26:42 GMT -5
well...i am still on the fence with this guy. i like him but i get so frustrated with him at the same time. i cant help but to think that old manager we used to have(dare i say his name) messed with his head a lil bit by not giving him the starting job all the time. it also didnt help that nobody was garunteed the same spot in the batting order as well....that had to play some part in his head. not sayin it is all his fault though. i would like to see him pan out this year around these numbers...276 avg, 23 hrs, 96 rbi's. that i would consider a breakout year for him...and if u think about it...is very doable for a guy like him is this park with this lineup. question is....do we get the EE after or before he was sent down to AAA last year?
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jake2bake4
Brett Tomko
"I don't want to play golf. When I hit a ball, I want someone else to go chase it." ~Rogers Hornsby
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Post by jake2bake4 on Mar 22, 2008 15:30:50 GMT -5
You have to think about how losing has affected our team. I get depressed when we go down in flames each year but at least I can turn the TV off or stop buying tickets. These guys (I don't feel bad cause they are making BANK) have to show up everyday and deal with the losing. You put EE on a winning team in a good lineup with a solid rotation and bullpen and the sky is the limit for everyone.
Winning changes everything.
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Post by schellis on Mar 22, 2008 21:11:04 GMT -5
I believe I would trade EE now. The guy has talent but he regularly requires a hard slap in the face to actually play hard and use it.
I'd put Kepp in at 3B and trade EE for a prospect. The Reds could use a catching, shortstop or 3B prospect, and of course pitching is always a good thing to have a abundance of.
Really a CF that can lead off wouldn't be a bad thing either.
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Post by Lark11 on Mar 23, 2008 0:21:27 GMT -5
I believe I would trade EE now. The guy has talent but he regularly requires a hard slap in the face to actually play hard and use it. I'd put Kepp in at 3B and trade EE for a prospect. The Reds could use a catching, shortstop or 3B prospect, and of course pitching is always a good thing to have a abundance of. Really a CF that can lead off wouldn't be a bad thing either. Actually, I tend to agree. It may be too late now, but I think dealing Edwin this offseason would've been a solid move. Regardless of whether his bat [glow=red,2,300] finally[/glow] lives up to its reputation, his glove will never be acceptable at the hot corner. We should've cashed him in while we had the chance. I used to subscribe to the idea that he was jimmy-jacked around too much by Narron and company, but when you get right down to it you want players who seize every opportunity given to him. Rather than seize his opportunities, Edwin seems to prefer squandering them. I'd much rather have someone who may be less talented than Edwin, but who, unlike Edwin, actually gets the most out of his ability. Deal Edwin and plug in Keppinger or acquire Inge or LaRoche. |
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Post by blee2525 on Mar 23, 2008 8:59:51 GMT -5
I really think Narron screwed with his head bad. He was never allowed to work out his problems on the field. If he made an error, he sat the next day for Aurilia. If he struggled at the plate, back down to Louisville he went. You can't expect a kid to quit making mistakes if you don't give him the opportunity to correct them himself. I wish I could find fielding splits to determine how many errors he made post-Narron. I really think most of them were EE thinking "don't screw up, don't screw up" knowing that he would sit if he screwed up. He definitely improved at the plate after Narron got fired.
I've never seen him as lazy. I think that's entirely a fabrication. I have heard reports of him taking extra infield to improve his defense. Hopefully, it sticks this year.
Essentially, I think he'll be a slightly above-average bat with a slightly below-average glove through his arbitration years. League average at arbitration rates is perfectly fine. I'm not looking to lock him up past that, but absent better options, Edwin is fine for me. And, no, Brandon Inge (OBP's the last 2 years: .313, .312) does not count as a better option.
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Post by Lark11 on Mar 23, 2008 10:50:56 GMT -5
I really think Narron screwed with his head bad. He was never allowed to work out his problems on the field. If he made an error, he sat the next day for Aurilia. If he struggled at the plate, back down to Louisville he went. You can't expect a kid to quit making mistakes if you don't give him the opportunity to correct them himself. I wish I could find fielding splits to determine how many errors he made post-Narron. I really think most of them were EE thinking "don't screw up, don't screw up" knowing that he would sit if he screwed up. He definitely improved at the plate after Narron got fired. I've never seen him as lazy. I think that's entirely a fabrication. I have heard reports of him taking extra infield to improve his defense. Hopefully, it sticks this year. Essentially, I think he'll be a slightly above-average bat with a slightly below-average glove through his arbitration years. League average at arbitration rates is perfectly fine. I'm not looking to lock him up past that, but absent better options, Edwin is fine for me. And, no, Brandon Inge (OBP's the last 2 years: .313, .312) does not count as a better option. True, Edwin is a better option than Inge, but here's the better question: Is Inge or Keppinger + whatever we get in exchange for Edwin > Edwin? I have a hard time believing that it isn't. |
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Post by blee2525 on Mar 23, 2008 11:39:40 GMT -5
I really think Narron screwed with his head bad. He was never allowed to work out his problems on the field. If he made an error, he sat the next day for Aurilia. If he struggled at the plate, back down to Louisville he went. You can't expect a kid to quit making mistakes if you don't give him the opportunity to correct them himself. I wish I could find fielding splits to determine how many errors he made post-Narron. I really think most of them were EE thinking "don't screw up, don't screw up" knowing that he would sit if he screwed up. He definitely improved at the plate after Narron got fired. I've never seen him as lazy. I think that's entirely a fabrication. I have heard reports of him taking extra infield to improve his defense. Hopefully, it sticks this year. Essentially, I think he'll be a slightly above-average bat with a slightly below-average glove through his arbitration years. League average at arbitration rates is perfectly fine. I'm not looking to lock him up past that, but absent better options, Edwin is fine for me. And, no, Brandon Inge (OBP's the last 2 years: .313, .312) does not count as a better option. True, Edwin is a better option than Inge, but here's the better question: Is Inge or Keppinger + whatever we get in exchange for Edwin > Edwin? I have a hard time believing that it isn't. You're leaving out part of the equation. Is Inge + whatever we get in exchange for Edwin > Edwin + whatever we have to give up to get Inge Part of Edwin's value is the fact that he's already here. |
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Post by Lark11 on Mar 23, 2008 13:25:25 GMT -5
True, Edwin is a better option than Inge, but here's the better question: Is Inge or Keppinger + whatever we get in exchange for Edwin > Edwin? I have a hard time believing that it isn't. You're leaving out part of the equation. Is Inge + whatever we get in exchange for Edwin > Edwin + whatever we have to give up to get Inge Part of Edwin's value is the fact that he's already here. Indeed. But, Inge would come cheap and Keppinger is already here. So, if you prefer, Keppinger + "Edwin Trade Haul" > Edwin? Again, I find it rather hard to believe that it isn't. Edwin *SHOULD* have a nice bat (though, again, I think that remains to be seen), but he gives back much of his offensive value with his very shoddy glove work. For me, that's the move that should have been made, not dealing 5 tool Hamilton away. |
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Post by cincyreds45212 on Mar 23, 2008 15:23:23 GMT -5
it may be too late....at least it's too late to get much. He still might come together though....i remember seeing him a lot this offseason playing in a mexican league or something. He was really tearing it up. I think he has the talent but seems to play scared at the ML level. Just like Brandon Larson, they have the talent, but they can't relax enough to be successful....the mind can be a terrible thing that can hold you back if you let it
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Post by blee2525 on Mar 23, 2008 15:30:23 GMT -5
it may be too late....at least it's too late to get much. He still might come together though....i remember seeing him a lot this offseason playing in a mexican league or something. He was really tearing it up. I think he has the talent but seems to play scared at the ML level. Just like Brandon Larson, they have the talent, but they can't relax enough to be successful....the mind can be a terrible thing that can hold you back if you let it Let's keep a little perspective here. Edwin is a slightly above-average hitter, with an OBP-heavy 108 and 101 OPS+ the last 2 years. Larson's career batting line was .171/.279/.299. To insinuate that they're even on the same planet as far as not living up to expectations is an insult to Edwin. |
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Post by cincyreds45212 on Mar 23, 2008 15:41:27 GMT -5
no reason to get chippy, thats why this board was made, we can dissagree with out insulting each other.
that said,. I wasnt insituating they were on the same plane on the field, what i was insinuating is that i think to some degree mentally they have both had issues.
They both have a lot of talent, but I think lack of mental focus, playing nervous and scared has hurt both of their careers. Some ppl obviously can't handle the pressure, and thats the impression both give me. EE looks scared on the field. Especially on defense. The blank stare thats always on his face is beyond emotionless. A dead body has more energy than him
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Post by CBassXU on Mar 25, 2008 21:25:50 GMT -5
I am a huge edwin fan, but I definatly think this is his make or break year, If it doesnt have this year I dont know if it will, and that is coming from a huge edwin fan.
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Post by The Duke on Mar 25, 2008 21:27:24 GMT -5
One of Frazier, Francisco, Waring, or Soto will be taking his spot in a year or two or three tops.
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