How Bad Was Our Pitching for yrs?

[GMBurchfield]

In 1998 or so ( somewhere between 1997-2000 )

I was only 9yrs old but I remember reading articles in the paper about the Reds trying to find a true ace and help there pitching and etc etc. Some of the names I remember being talked about was:

Jose Rosado
Brad Radkie
Andy Ashby

I like Brad and he had a nice career and Rosado did until he got hurt and Ashby was solid but I just remember how hyped up they was and how it was made to seem they could save this franchise. If either of those was post to be the savior looking back now I didnt understand how bad our pitching was.

We never got lucky either. I remember when we would sign guys and I was thinking wow this guy is a real name he can come in and do some stuff. Now yes I was young so maybe that had something to do with it but when we dealt for Ryan Dempster, Shawn Estes and Brian Mohler I thought each time this move was going to get us to the playoffs. When we was able to get Danny Neagle I was so excited because I thought for sure this would turn things around. I can remember when we got Steve Avery how I ran and told my dad we just got one of the Braves old 4 aces and that we was winning it all that year.

Then when we got Juan Guzman and he actually came here and did well I thought finally we have the guy who is going to turn things around. Just to see him leave in FA that off season. Now yes it was a good thing he left because he didnt have many good games after that but still it sucked at the time.

I can remember going threw the motions of us getting average guys and thinking they could turn things around. Sometimes they gave me false hope also.

Jimmy Haynes had his one solid season
Paul Wilson had a good season
Joey Hamilton showed some solid games
Osvaldo Fernendez had a few really good games
Elmer Dessens gave me some hope


I can remember when we had Mark Portugol and Brian Bohanon come and try to catch on with the team in spring training and how excited I was because of some past success.

I remember how excited I got when I first got to see Brandon Claussen pitch ( I belive it was vs the Phils ) and how pumped I was about Lance Davis and his future after his first season with us. I remember how excited I was about Ty Howwington, Chris Gruler and Bobby Basham. I thought when we got Ed Yarnell that we had finally got a pitcher with some real talent. Just on and on and on.

The writers and announcers helped create this over excitement. They bragged on how good Seth Etherton was going to be once he got healthy. How good of a pickup Luke Prokapec was. I remember all the rumors of us maybe getting El Duqe and Kenny Rogers and Javier Vazquez as well as Dustin Hermenson. The yearly Brad Penny rumor.

I dont even know why I am writing about this but I was just looking back and remembering some of this and thought I would just type as it jumped into my head.

Was I just young and stupid? Was we so starved for just a decent pitcher that I feel in love with any little sign of talent?

I also have to ask myself again why am I bothering to write this? We all know how bad it has been. It isnt going to look that good or read that well because I am writing as I think and not thinking about how to structure it. I dont really have a anserw. I have a theory that maybe I am trying to brace for the worst case in Cueto and Volquez this year because I have been misguided in my hope for a while.

It doesnt matter though I just thought I would share my thoughts as they jumped into my head.

I guess the best thing we can do is hope for the best in Cueto, Volquez, Bailey and everyone else.

Anyone else having random crazy Reds thoughts and memories? Is it possible that I think about the Reds too much lol.

[jsmith]

Wow GM, You're post brought back many bad memories. I also got excited about many of the pitchers we aquired/drafted over the years--and alas they sucked. I have loved the Reds my whole life, and just always hoped for the best. I will say that what has me the most excited about maybe this year, and the future is that we actually SEEM to have a little pitching depth. In the past ten years or so it was very clear that one injury would cripple the season beyond repair.

[Lark11]

No, it isn't possible. ;D

That was an enjoyable post, as there have been a few highs, a lot of lows, and countless false hopes over the years.

It's interesting that you mention Steve Avery, because I remember really getting my hopes about Steve. His velocity wasn't back, but he had a great change up and seemed to be getting by on pure pitching know-how. Unfortunately, if I didn't know then what I know now. If I did, then I would know that his quality ERA and WHIP weren't supported by his peripherals.

In 1999, Avery posted a 2.02 ERA and a 1.07 WHIP in March and April. Unfortunately, in those 35.2 innings, Avery had a 21/19 K/BB ratio. His hot start wasn't sustainable, but rather driven by hit luck. As to be expected, he followed up his white hot start with a 6.62 ERA in May, a 6.18 ERA in June, and a 9.00 ERA in July. And, with that, sadly the Avery experiment came to an end.

Another guy who got my hopes up was John Roper. I wish I knew more about his development, but I was impressed with him when I saw him pitch for the Reds. I really thought he'd develop into a solid starter. He was drafted in 1990 in the 12th round. During his 5 seasons in the minors, Roper posted a 4.08 ERA, 1.32 WHIP, and a 210/101 K/BB ratio.

Roper reached the majors for the Reds at the ripe old age of 21. His first season resulted in a 5.63 ERA and 1.60 WHIP in 80.0 innings. He followed that up with a 4.50 ERA and 1.30 WHIP in 92.0 innings, which is impressive. He only worked in 7.0 innings for the Reds in 1995 before he was traded away to the Giants along with Deion Sanders.

He proceeded to pitch 1 inning for the Giants in 1995 and only 15 more professional innings in his career. I don't know what happened to him (I'm guessing shoulder problems), but I always thought he had a good future ahead of him. Unfortunately, like most Reds pitchers, that just wasn't the case.

And, don't even get me started on Brett Tomko. There have been a lot of disappointments in the last couple of decades for the Reds, which I suppose makes Cueto and Bailey all the more exciting.

[jsmith]

John Roper, now that name really makes me sad. I also thought he was going to be a really good pitcher. I think he did hurt his shoulder, but I really am not sure. I have about 50 of his Bowman rookie cards if anyone would like one, but I would have to find them first.

Does anyone here live close enough to the DC area to go to a Reds/Nats game with my wife and I? Would be nice to watch a game with other huge Reds fans. Getting tickets would be easy through our work...let me know cause we have plenty of time.

Not sure about keeping Lincoln on the 25 man, and sending Bray down. That really seems like a waste. Any info on who may lose their 40 man roster spots? Bring on opening day!

[Lark11]

Interesting to see that others shared my opinion of Roper. I really thought he was the real deal, but he just faded away into obscurity.

Another name mentioned above that I thought would be worth something was Ed Yarnell. Also, Rob Bell comes to mind. I'm not sure why, but none of these guys ever amounted to anything.

Man, I hope Johnny Cueto, Homer Bailey, and Edinson can put an end to this kind of reminiscing. Maybe in the future we'll be talking about all the quality pitching prospects that came up through our farm system.

[quantumfootball]

I think that in Rob Bell's first start, he got something like sixteen of eighteen batters out in a row, and struck out Sammy Sosa three times. That's why I think great things were expected of Bell. He wasn't actually that bad, it was just idiotic that he was traded for Ruben Mateo.

[The Duke]

Mar 30, 2008 12:53:02 GMT -5 Lark11 said:

Maybe in the future we'll be talking about all the quality pitching prospects that came up through our farm system.

We need to start restocking now though. Cueto is graduated, Homer will be soon, Volquez is there. After that the Reds have a lot of unknowns and 2nd tier guys (Lotzkar, Thompson, Ravin, etc...). The #7 pick in this draft should be able to get the Reds a quality arm that can project as a top of the rotation ( or 2) type starter.

[jake2bake4]

Thats why I think its really important that Volquez, Cueto, and Bailey come through for us to allow time to restock the pitching cabinet. We have good prospects in the bullpen but the starters seem thin a little. If those three come through for us than we will have time to restock everything.

Thats why I think the Volquez trade was so smart, because we have OFs that are ready and needed that extra pitcher to buy us time. Volquez should really come through for us.

[The Duke]

Hopefully in 2010 we are talking about Lotzkar, Freidrich, and somebody else ready to make the show to ancho the rotation that is led by Cueto, Volquez, and Bailey

[Lark11]

Mar 31, 2008 0:16:41 GMT -5 quantumfootball said:

I think that in Rob Bell's first start, he got something like sixteen of eighteen batters out in a row, and struck out Sammy Sosa three times. That's why I think great things were expected of Bell. He wasn't actually that bad, it was just idiotic that he was traded for Ruben Mateo.

Yeah, I'm sure that was part of it, but I thought he was a fairly well regarded prospect before he ever set foot in Cincy. Unfortunately, he didn't do any better than most of our pitching prospects.

[jonnyl05]

I saw Rob Bell had an invite to some club this year.

When I was in middle school I remember all the hype around Roper.

oops

[schellis]

The only pitcher I really remember being hyped as a front line guy was Tomko. He was pretty good when he was first called up, went over seas with Schilling and really wasn't the same after that. Remember reading that Schilling got his ear and Tomko tried to start pitching like Schilling when he didn't have the stuff to do so.

Another I remember is Mo Sanford

Pretty sad though when Tomko is the best arm your teams system has produced in what two decades.

[Lark11]

Mar 31, 2008 19:15:35 GMT -5 schellis said:

The only pitcher I really remember being hyped as a front line guy was Tomko. He was pretty good when he was first called up, went over seas with Schilling and really wasn't the same after that. Remember reading that Schilling got his ear and Tomko tried to start pitching like Schilling when he didn't have the stuff to do so.

Another I remember is Mo Sanford

Pretty sad though when Tomko is the best arm your teams system has produced in what two decades.

I watched some of the Royals/Tigers opening day game and Tomko (as usual) looked to have great stuff. He hit 96 a couple of times and was cruising, but of course, he gave up a homer to tie the game.

I still wonder what kind of late inning reliever he would make, but he just never quite seems to grasp the mental side of pitching. Still, you can't argue with the stuff.