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Post by reds4life1986 on Oct 3, 2015 15:29:37 GMT -5
Walt Jocketty just told us Bryan Price will return as #Reds manager in 2016
3:52pm - 3 Oct 15
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Post by reds4life1986 on Oct 3, 2015 15:31:32 GMT -5
I feel price is the man for this young rookie rotation. I know alot feel otherwise. But bruce bochy couldnt win with these guys
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Post by kinsm on Oct 3, 2015 15:47:11 GMT -5
He'll be fired by August.
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Post by vtreds22 on Oct 3, 2015 16:04:07 GMT -5
Not surprised, and don't really care either way. The team isn't going to be good next year and unless they can find a way to get to 80ish wins (unlikely), Price is a sitting duck.
I dread next season.
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Post by Lark11 on Oct 3, 2015 16:07:34 GMT -5
I feel price is the man for this young rookie rotation. I know alot feel otherwise. But bruce bochy couldnt win with these guys I can understand this point of view, but I'm done with Price. |
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Post by vtreds22 on Oct 3, 2015 16:20:18 GMT -5
I feel price is the man for this young rookie rotation. I know alot feel otherwise. But bruce bochy couldnt win with these guys I can understand this point of view, but I'm done with Price. Joe Maddon couldn't win 75 games with bunch. It doesn't matter who the manager is for next season. We're going to be terrible. |
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Post by redsfanman on Oct 3, 2015 16:55:12 GMT -5
I think bringing Price back to start 2016 is the right choice, but I agree he'll probably be fired during the season. But Jocketty's contract is up after 2016, too, and I doubt he'll be retained. Everything seems to be stacked up for a changing of the guards, while we continue to watch the young pitchers develop.
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Post by kinsm on Oct 3, 2015 18:41:24 GMT -5
"Just to put this to rest, Bryan is coming back as the Reds manager in 2016," Jocketty said. "We are going to discuss the coaching staff over the next couple of weeks, and we'll make an announcement about that in two-to-three weeks." Jocketty said the decision was made a few days ago by himself and CEO Bob Castellini.
Price said, "When I spoke to Walt, my feeling is it's one thing to go through the labor pains, but you want to be there to deliver the baby. You want to see that the challenges we've endured, we've worked our way through, we've established the talent that we need to be competitive and win the division, and go out there and win divisions and get ourselves to places we haven't been in a long time. There's work ahead to do. Part of that groundwork has been laid the last couple of months with this young starting rotation. We're learning things that are going to help us in 2016 and beyond, but it's been very challenging, very painful to not win at a much higher rate than we have. This is the time when we're building the foundation for the future, and we'll get it done."
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Post by redsfanman on Oct 3, 2015 19:29:13 GMT -5
I do wonder who'll be replaced from the pitching coach (and what say Price even has in the replacements). In the past I disagreed with calls for Brook Jacoby to be fired, as the offense produced lots of runs at times during his tenure... or firing Dusty after going to the Wild Card game... but in the case of the current coaching staff there's not much, in my opinion, to say as far as who does and doesn't deserve to keep their jobs. Nobody like Jacoby facing a big push to replace them despite good reason to keep them.
Hitting Coach Don Long? Who cares? If they want to replace him, fine, but I doubt it'll make much of a difference, or that anyone will care.
Pitching Coach Jeff Pico? Who cares?
Bullpen Coach Mack Jenkins? Who cares? He's been in the organization for a long time, and has spent two season each as bullpen coach and assistant pitching coach. Maybe he even replaces Pico? Or something? Although I doubt they want a rookie pitching coach working with their young arms...
Assistant Hitting Coach Lee Tinsley? Who cares.
3b Coach Jim Riggleman? Might as well bring in someone younger. He's clearly been an improvement over his predecessor as far as runners getting thrown out, but I still fear the interim-manager possibility. I don't want him switched to bench coach for that reason.
Bench Coach Jay Bell? He was arguing with Marlon Byrd. He likes defensive shifts. He's close to Price. In my opinion he's the most likely guy to be fired.
Billy Hatcher and Mike Stefanski can probably be comfortable that their jobs are safe.
It'll be interesting to say if Bryan Price gets a big say in new people, and can bring in friends, or if somebody who seems like a potential replacement... Delino DeShields maybe... gets pushed onto his staff. Or even Barry Larkin. Larkin showing the humility to accept a coaching role and possibly a trial as an interim manager later in 2016 is a scenario I wouldn't hate like the recent notion of immediately hiring him to take over.
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Post by sockersfc09 on Oct 3, 2015 20:03:47 GMT -5
I think bringing Price back to start 2016 is the right choice, but I agree he'll probably be fired during the season. But Jocketty's contract is up after 2016, too, and I doubt he'll be retained. ; Everything seems to be stacked up for a changing of the guards, while we continue to watch the young pitchers develop. So why delay the inevitable then? If thats the case, and I think you're right, they are sunk costs. Cut Jocketty, Price and anyone else loose and lets get the total rebuild underway ASAP. |
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Post by redsfanman on Oct 3, 2015 20:29:27 GMT -5
I think bringing Price back to start 2016 is the right choice, but I agree he'll probably be fired during the season. But Jocketty's contract is up after 2016, too, and I doubt he'll be retained. ; Everything seems to be stacked up for a changing of the guards, while we continue to watch the young pitchers develop. So why delay the inevitable then? If thats the case, and I think you're right, they are sunk costs. Cut Jocketty, Price and anyone else loose and lets get the total rebuild underway ASAP. Good question. Being fired is an almost inevitable part of any manager or GM's job. Anytime you keep someone for a day you're delaying the inevitable, in my opinion. The manager's primary job, in my opinion, seems to be getting fired as a scapegoat. In my opinion the rebuild is already underway. It started with the Latos and Simon trades (cough cough, excuse me, that was the "middle path"), and it was kicked into high-gear with the Cueto and Leake trades (cough couch, excuse me, that was "retooling"). Jocketty has been doing it, despite putting up a different face for interviews. Price has been managing the rebuild, despite interviews about the team being good or whatever. For 2008 the Reds brought in a new manager and GM (Dusty and Jocketty) to manage through the final stages of a rebuild, largely built off the work of Dan O'Brien and Wayne Krivsky. It paid off, of course, in the form of the 2010 playoff run. So far the Reds, in my opinion, are in an early stage of their current rebuild... during 2016 they'll start to show off a lot more of the young talent - Winker, Stephenson, Reed, and others - and they're not yet at a stage of fine tuning for a playoff run. The GM's big priorities for the offseason should be trading Chapman and Bruce (and perhaps Frazier) for prospects, something which Jocketty has done well with (to the surprise of most people) recently. I guess the question comes down to... if things are going to get worse before they get better, do you fire guys when things are starting to look their worst, or wait until things are starting to look up? Do you really want to bring in a new manager and GM to lead the team through another painful season of watching prospects develop... or bring someone in for some fine tuning when the team is almost ready to contend? If you expect to contend in 2017, why damage the reputation of the 2017 manager with an ugly 2016? Replace Jocketty and Price today and I'm certain we'll hear the exact same calls for their predecessors' heads at the end of 2016. Winning and losing is a series of peaks and valleys. The team peaked under Dusty Baker, and has fallen into a valley (well, chasm) under Price, although little of it has to do with the manager. Jocketty has made plenty of bad (or unlucky) free agent decisions in recent years, but he's done a good job in trades and keeping the farm system intact (Ben Lively is the best prospect traded in years). I don't see Jocketty as the negative others do, he's recently shown that he can address those big issues for this coming offseason (trading guys, in this case Chapman and Bruce). I think he's well positioned the team for a playoff run in 2017 and beyond. At this point I feel that waiting (approximately a year) is a better way to improve than replacing Jocketty. The risk of keeping Walt Jocketty is veterans signing multi-year contracts, but that seems highly unlikely to me after a ~98 loss season. And it's not like the Reds have lots of guys to pursue long term extensions with this winter, either. I see a winter of two big trades, a handful of minor-league-contracts-with-invitations-to-spring-training, and lots of touting the young players. I doubt another year of Jocketty will be able to have an adverse effect, with him no longer in win-now mode. So, there are my random and incoherent thoughts on the matter. Let Jocketty finish up (trading Chapman, Bruce) and move on, the rest is a waiting game. Let Price work with the young pitchers, as I don't see how it can harm the rebuild. When the team is in a better short-term position, then bring in new people for a far more desirable situation/job. |
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Post by redsfanman on Oct 3, 2015 20:46:31 GMT -5
I am fine with replacing Jocketty, at this point, if the team wants to. I don't think doing it today, as opposed to during 2016, is a big deal though. But I definitely think they need to replace the GM before doing the same as the manager (and that was a big part of my opposition to firing Dusty, I didn't believe for a second that replacing the manager would bring about any of the desired changes... and it didn't... and again it won't). Most of the manager(s) problems in recent years have been about the players given to them by the GM, rather than poor decisions or anything.
The new GM should choose a new manager.
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Post by reds4life1986 on Oct 3, 2015 22:29:29 GMT -5
I do wonder who'll be replaced from the pitching coach (and what say Price even has in the replacements). In the past I disagreed with calls for Brook Jacoby to be fired, as the offense produced lots of runs at times during his tenure... or firing Dusty after going to the Wild Card game... but in the case of the current coaching staff there's not much, in my opinion, to say as far as who does and doesn't deserve to keep their jobs. Nobody like Jacoby facing a big push to replace them despite good reason to keep them. Hitting Coach Don Long? Who cares? If they want to replace him, fine, but I doubt it'll make much of a difference, or that anyone will care. Pitching Coach Jeff Pico? Who cares? Bullpen Coach Mack Jenkins? Who cares? He's been in the organization for a long time, and has spent two season each as bullpen coach and assistant pitching coach. Maybe he even replaces Pico? Or something? Although I doubt they want a rookie pitching coach working with their young arms... Assistant Hitting Coach Lee Tinsley? Who cares. 3b Coach Jim Riggleman? Might as well bring in someone younger. He's clearly been an improvement over his predecessor as far as runners getting thrown out, but I still fear the interim-manager possibility. I don't want him switched to bench coach for that reason. Bench Coach Jay Bell? He was arguing with Marlon Byrd. He likes defensive shifts. He's close to Price. In my opinion he's the most likely guy to be fired. Billy Hatcher and Mike Stefanski can probably be comfortable that their jobs are safe. It'll be interesting to say if Bryan Price gets a big say in new people, and can bring in friends, or if somebody who seems like a potential replacement... Delino DeShields maybe... gets pushed onto his staff. Or even Barry Larkin. Larkin showing the humility to accept a coaching role and possibly a trial as an interim manager later in 2016 is a scenario I wouldn't hate like the recent notion of immediately hiring him to take over. Maybe ted power gets a look at pitching coach? |
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Post by psuhistory on Oct 3, 2015 22:43:52 GMT -5
No problem bringing him back. If they were going to fire him, it shouldn't be for the w/l record...
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Post by redsfanman on Oct 4, 2015 1:26:27 GMT -5
Maybe ted power gets a look at pitching coach? In my opinion pitching coach is probably the most significant role on the 2016 coaching staff, with so many inexperienced pitchers (while the hitters are either bad, experienced veterans, or Suarez and Barnhart). Ted Powers has been the Louisville pitching coach since 2006... seemingly forever. There haven't exactly been lots of highly regarded arms passing through Louisville in recent years, at least until recently (Stephenson, Finnegan, Lorenzen). Cody Reed, Zack Weiss, Stephen Johnson, and others will probably be passing through Louisville in 2016. I wouldn't be surprised if they wanted him to remain at Louisville, with his good reputation. And I don't know nearly enough about him to know if he'd be seriously considered as MLB pitching coach. From the little I know it doesn't sound like a bad idea, but who knows what they're even looking for? I have no idea how they feel about Jeff Pico. He was hired after previously serving as the DBacks' minor league pitching coordinator (a role current bullpen coach Mack Jenkins held before joining the Reds' staff), and Price was allowed to choose him. If Pico is sacked, would Price have a say in his replacement? Would they consider an internal option with a similar resume to Pico, who's close to Price, in Mack Jenkins (is a similar resume a good thing, or a bad thing)? Would they consider Ted Powers as an internal option with limited ties to Price? Or would they try to find some unemployed-but-experienced MLB pitching coach? In my opinion adding Ted Powers or Delino DeShields to the staff could be seen as blows to Price's authority, especially if they replace Price's choices Pico and Bell, respectively. It'll also be interesting to see where Corky Miller ends up in the system in 2016. I guess he spent 2015 with Dayton, and roaming around working with catchers in the system. I wouldn't be surprised to see him given a bigger job in the system, as either a manager or pitching coach. Maybe in Dayton, where Tyler Stephenson will be. Corky's status will be something to watch. |
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