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Post by walstib on Sept 18, 2014 19:11:17 GMT -5
...are developing good, young talent. What has Walt Jocketty done lately?
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Post by Lark11 on Sept 18, 2014 19:26:08 GMT -5
...are developing good, young talent. What has Walt Jocketty done lately? Won ballgames. |
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Post by kinsm on Sept 18, 2014 19:57:23 GMT -5
Jocketty's Reds have won just as many playoff series as Epstein's Cubs.
Reap the whirlwind.
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Post by psuhistory on Sept 18, 2014 21:26:49 GMT -5
At least we've made the playoffs. I don't envy the Cubs the last five years, and it's not like they're a small market...
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Post by dukecrunchybagel on Sept 19, 2014 8:44:29 GMT -5
My son pointed out that last time the Cubs won a World Championship, there was still an Ottoman Empire.
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Post by redsfanman on Sept 19, 2014 10:34:13 GMT -5
Ironically the Cubs, with their young talent, have former Rookie of the Year Chris Coghlan on the team, who quickly went bust after his much-hyped rookie season. It seems like a metaphor regarding how their talent has panned out. Mike Olt has hit .156 in 218 ABs this year, Javier Baez .178 in 174 ABs. Alcantara has hit .212 in 245 ABs.
Jorge Soler's 57 AB debut seems like the only success story this year amongst their young hitting talent. Kyle Hendricks seems like their only success story amongst young pitchers. Rizzo and Starlin Castro have also hit well, at age 24, but Castro's name often comes up as a trade candidate.
Their farm system still has Kris Bryant, Addison Russell, and others who are years away.
Is Jake Arietta having a breakout season or a fluke season at age 28? Which is the real Travis Wood, the 2013 version or the every other year one? Is Tsuyoshi Wada for real? What does the future look like for Jacob Turner, Felix Doubront, and Dan Straily? These 6 guys look like the starting rotation the Cubs have assembled going forward.
The Cubs have a lot of raw talent (a benefit of drafting so high for so many years, after so many bad seasons). Do they have a winning team for 2015? I sure don't see it. Olt and Coghlan reflect what I expect from many of their hitting prospects, and their rotation is full of HUGE question marks.
Jocketty has developed a farm system heavy in starting pitchers and corner outfielders. A wave of them were promoted a few years ago, and the next wave are due in the next couple of years.
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Post by walstib on Sept 21, 2014 13:33:32 GMT -5
...are developing good, young talent. What has Walt Jocketty done lately? Won ballgames. A GM does not win ball games. He establishes an environment whereby the organization's depth and level of talent in players, coupled with astute coaching enables the team to translate all of these efforts into wins. Has WJ done his job? Pithy and snarky replies don't cut it. You should know better. |
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Post by Lark11 on Sept 21, 2014 22:02:54 GMT -5
A GM does not win ball games. He establishes an environment whereby the organization's depth and level of talent in players, coupled with astute coaching enables the team to translate all of these efforts into wins. Has WJ done his job? Pithy and snarky replies don't cut it. You should know better. It wasn't a pithy or snarky reply. The GM is responsible for the entire organization, if not directly, then by appointing the person who is. All roads lead to the GM and it's difficult to discount the fact that we have had our most successful, sustained stretch in quite a long time on Walt's watch. |
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Post by kinsm on Sept 21, 2014 22:46:46 GMT -5
A GM does not win ball games. He establishes an environment whereby the organization's depth and level of talent in players, coupled with astute coaching enables the team to translate all of these efforts into wins. Has WJ done his job? Pithy and snarky replies don't cut it. You should know better. It wasn't a pithy or snarky reply. The GM is responsible for the entire organization, if not directly than appointing the person who is. All roads lead to the GM and it's difficult to discount the fact that we have had our most successful, sustained stretch in quite a long time on Walt's watch. No thanks at all to the prior GM's for bringing those "successful" players into the organization? |
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Post by Lark11 on Sept 21, 2014 23:10:33 GMT -5
It wasn't a pithy or snarky reply. The GM is responsible for the entire organization, if not directly than appointing the person who is. All roads lead to the GM and it's difficult to discount the fact that we have had our most successful, sustained stretch in quite a long time on Walt's watch. No thanks at all to the prior GM's for bringing those "successful" players into the organization? Sure. And, lots of blame for sending some "successful" players out of the organization. I would like to think that Jocketty wouldn't have traded Josh Hamilton for Edinson Volquez. |
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Post by kinsm on Sept 22, 2014 0:37:30 GMT -5
No thanks at all to the prior GM's for bringing those "successful" players into the organization? Sure. And, lots of blame for sending some "successful" players out of the organization. I would like to think that Jocketty wouldn't have traded Josh Hamilton for Edinson Volquez. "players" Name them. And we've been back and forth on Hamilton...by all accounts donkey was ordered too, but even if you don't believe that there isn't a flawless GM in the history of the game. This team needed pitching he was a drug/alcoholic user with no mlb track record..boo hoo. The players brought in far outweigh the one who got away. You may be right, instead he would have signed some other washed up Cardinal to a ridiculous contract. ---The fact remains the best chances this club has had in decades at winning anything is slipping away quickly because he's too slow to react. If he remains with this club this winter he has to acquire a bat, a legit bat. If not, why the hell bring him back. |
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Post by Lark11 on Sept 22, 2014 0:48:11 GMT -5
Sure. And, lots of blame for sending some "successful" players out of the organization. I would like to think that Jocketty wouldn't have traded Josh Hamilton for Edinson Volquez. "players" Name them. And we've been back and forth on Hamilton...by all accounts donkey was ordered too, but even if you don't believe that there isn't a flawless GM in the history of the game. This team needed pitching he was a drug/alcoholic user with no mlb track record..boo hoo. The players brought in far outweigh the one who got away. You may be right, instead he would have signed some other washed up Cardinal to a ridiculous contract. ---The fact remains the best chances this club has had in decades at winning anything is slipping away quickly because he's too slow to react. If he remains with this club this winter he has to acquire a bat, a legit bat. If not, why the hell bring him back. I'm not sure I get your point. My point was simply that every GM takes over a team that was built, to some extent, by a predecessor. Unless you are the first GM of an expansion team, then you are picking up and playing someone else's hand. Whether that's for better or worse, every GM steps into an existing organization occupying a particular position on the win-curve. Walt is no different in that respect. |
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Post by kinsm on Sept 22, 2014 2:04:16 GMT -5
The Reds GM in 2016 might be f u c k e d.
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Post by redsfanman on Sept 22, 2014 9:14:25 GMT -5
A GM does not win ball games. He establishes an environment whereby the organization's depth and level of talent in players, coupled with astute coaching enables the team to translate all of these efforts into wins. Has WJ done his job? Pithy and snarky replies don't cut it. You should know better. It wasn't a pithy or snarky reply. The GM is responsible for the entire organization, if not directly than appointing the person who is. All roads lead to the GM and it's difficult to discount the fact that we have had our most successful, sustained stretch in quite a long time on Walt's watch. Lark is a Jocketty defender and apologist! In other words he's being correct and reasonable... but it's just a matter of how you look at it. Success in win-loss records under Jocketty have raised the bar over what he achieved, he took an organization that seemed to finish in last place every year and led them to several contending seasons, and BAM, hasn't won the World Series so he needs to be fired. |
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Post by kinsm on Sept 22, 2014 9:26:36 GMT -5
The goal of every GM should be to put your team in a better position to win a championship every winter, Jocketty sat on his hands over the winter. But he will get a pass due to injuries. And now it appears that the window may indeed be closing.
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